green LA girl

The nuts and bolts of freecycling

Posted by Siel in environment, losangeles (September 30, 2005 at 7:32 pm)

The offers in my inbox weren’t promising. Used postage stamps, a Nine West coupon for $10-off-a-$65-purchase, children’s bunkbeds. Still, during a post-quals cleaning frenzy, I thought the Los Angeles Freecycling Network might be the best way to get rid of stuff, fast, without adding to the city dump.

So I took pictures of unused objects lurking in my closet — down to various nails and screws that came from I don’t know where (left) — loaded them up on flickr, and offered them up for free.

LA Freecycle is basically a listserv that connects people who wanna get rid of stuff with people who want that stuff. You sign up to join, pick how you wanna hear about offers (individual emails or digest), then start getting the offers that look like this:

Subj: [LA FreeCycle] OFFER: large poster of Kerouac (La Cienega & Pico)

I have a large poster of Kerouac and Moriarty from City Lights. Still love Kerouac — but the poster’s hue doesn’t go with my room’s.
…. I’m gonna be offering a number of things via freecycle today, so feel free to browse the pics of other things to see if any of those may interest you.

I live near La Cienega and Pico. Please take any or all of them — or I’ll need to look into how they may be recycled.

Thanks :)
Siel

Little did I know how much people really DO want African necklaces that aren’t my style! Got three takers for those before I sent in a TAKEN email to halt other freecyclers. And Michele from Culver City already came by to pick up a hammer, a large backpack, and a brand new flashlight, still in its packaging with batteries. She was nice :)

And Lynette will be taking the bus all the way from Inglewood tomorrow to pick up a phone & answering machine — and the nails and screws.

I am, however, still waiting for takers on a utensil tray, five disposable razors, artificial reeds, and a wood-like board thing left over from when I assembled my desk without looking at the directions.

The desk, by the way, is totally solid. I’m keeping it.

Update, 1/7/07: NY Times gives freecycle some coverage today. I’m still a happy freecycle member — Today I’m giving away a lamp and some unused bridal shower invitations :)

Update, 1/15/07: Okay — freecycle rocks on a local level, but is super idiotic on a corporate level. Check out how freecycle’s making speech less free.

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Recycling small talk

Posted by Siel in environment, consumerism (September 29, 2005 at 8:56 pm)

My mom’s last move cost us $900. Just her stuff, no one else’s. When the movers arrived, all her junk collected over the years was either still unpacked, or packed into teeny-tiny boxes. These strong moving men were running back and forth from the huge moving truck with hand vaccums, purses, and dinky little shopping-bagfuls of stuff.

By the time we got to the new place, the sun had long since set — and the electricity hadn’t been turned on yet. These men worked by candlelight — somewhat of a safety issue, since they were carrying heavy dressers and beds up a flight of stairs –

Still, we all survived, and during the unpacking process I found bag after bag of useless, broken junk that should’ve been thrown away years ago — each of which probably cost my mom about $10 in moving costs.

Among the finds: a small stockpile of old cell phones. I took these to The Body Shop — I’d donated a cell a few months back for their program that helped victims of domestic violence — but the program had ended August 30. The woman working there said that the phones hadn’t mailed out yet, so she’d go ahead and put mine with the pile.

But for you packrats out there with a growing cell phone collection, with not a lotta green in the wallet but lotsa green in your heart, this is what’d I recommend you do, in this order:

1. See if you can exchange your phones for new stuff — like gift certificates to Circuit City or MSN music — via RipMobile. If they’ll pay you something for your phone, go for it — you may as well get a lil money if you can. If your phone’s non-working or nondesirable, you can still send it in for no money, but I would try #2 –

2. Donate your phone via Earthworks’ Recycle My Cell Phone. All phones are welcomed, no matter how ugly or nonfunctional — This is very much an environment-oriented initiative, aimed at recycling as many cells as possible with the strictest environmental standards.

There are other programs — Collective Good or Charitable Recycling, for example, let you pick from a number of charities to donate to, and dog lovers might opt for Phones for Bones.

Right now I kinda hate my cell phone — I technically “upgraded” a few months ago, but it feels like a downgrade. Trying to stick it out till I can switch to Working Assets, after my T-Mobile contract runs out…

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Fair trade workarounds: Coffee Crisis 107

Posted by Siel in caffeine, fairtrade, losangeles (September 28, 2005 at 8:09 pm)

For a non-fair trade certified company, Groundwork Coffee buys a LOT of coffee from fair trade certified farms. Check out one of the many bushels of coffee in Groundwork’s offices, imprinted with the fair trade seal of approval.

So why don’t Groundwork coffee packages sport the seal? To get the seal, everyone in the chain has to be certified, from the farmer to the retailer. Groundwork, so far, has opted out.

Today, I met with Ric, COO of Groundwork, to find out why. We set up our meeting over a week ago – during which time I’ve speculated here about why a socio-enviro conscious company like Groundwork would snub fair trade certification. Turns out, I do damn good research (hihi), cuz my speculations were right on. Groundwork’s biggest peeves: 1. Fair trade certification is only open to small co-ops, which cuts out all individually owned farms and larger estates, and 2. Fair trade certification has no quality controls.

The first point, I totally agree, is a major shortcoming right now (The second I’ll deal with later – I can already sense this post’ll be longish). Which is why I’m totally with Groundwork if they can’t go 100% certified. But my question to Ric: Why not certify the stuff that comes from already-certified farms? (Ric with another certified bag, right)

For one, Ric believes that changes in the coffee industry will be propelled by the specialty coffee companies like himself, not the consumers. Ric has real reservations about whether or not the fair trade model – which relies on consumer recognition of the fair trade label — actually improves things. In the worst case scenario, he feels, the fair trade model would pay premium prices for gross tasting coffee, then let retailers gouge customers by hiking up prices.

Certainly not a happy scenario – but one, Ric pointed out, that’s happened in the past with organic certification.

A certification seal Groundwork proudly displays on its packages.

So if consumer recognition won’t change things, why the organic certification? Ric had said earlier that Groundwork’s choice to start going organic in 1996 was fueled by customer demand. The certification seal was necessary cuz it’s the only way customers know a product really is organic.

Which was my argument about fair trade certification. Ric said that customers who really care are welcome to come talk to him – like I was doing. “With most customers, I only get 10 seconds!� he said.

Well, yeah. But is that really a fair request to consumers? Undermotivated grad students like me can roll into Groundwork at 1:30 and chat for 2 hours, but Ric himself had rued that with work and travel, he doesn’t get to spend enough time at home with his wife and 4 kids. Meaning it’s one thing to ask concerned consumers to be aware a coffee crisis exists, and to care enough to buy fair trade certified when grocery shopping. Quite another to ask them to take time off work investigating coffee companies.

And in fact, even Groundwork’s use of the words “fair trade” on its website (the word “certifiedâ€? is carefully omitted) attests to the fact that Groundwork knows more and more consumers care about fair trade practices – and recognize fair trade certification. If Groundwork was simply describing their practices, “We pay our farmers living wagesâ€? would’ve been their text of choice. Instead, the site says that Groundwork’s practice supports “fair trade, shade-grown, and organic coffees.â€?

Fair trade, as it is now, is not a perfect system. But aside from certification, I just really don’t see any other way for masses of consumers to become more knowledgeable, to become engaged, to start demanding fairer trading practices both from companies and from our governments.

Green LA girl’s suggestions:

  • To give a lil more info about Groundwork’s thoughts on “fair tradeâ€? on his website and in stores, since saying the coffee is “fair tradeâ€? without a mention of certification can be misleading (Ric plans to have something up by next week), and
  • To offer at least one fair trade certified blend.

The logistics won’t be hard for Ric, since he already buys many blends that are certified on the farmer’s end. And when customers ask if all the other blends are certified? It’s an opportunity to begin a dialogue – talking about some of the reasons why certification isn’t possible for all coffee, for example — Which is what Ric wants to do anyway. Perhaps it would be a way for customers to invest more that 10 seconds in thinking about where the things we take for granted come from.

Let me make clear here that Ric seemed very concerned about – and personally involved in — fairer trading practices. It’s really just the certification bit we disagreed on, and our conversation was super-friendly and constructive, even when we disagreed.

And might I say that I changed Ric’s mind a little? As I left, Ric said I’ve almost convinced him to certify one of his blends, that he’s thinking about it.

Coffee aficionados of the blogosphere — your thoughts?

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That which they call a meme

Posted by Siel in food, alcohol (September 27, 2005 at 9:01 pm)

I’ve been meme’d! Or tagged! Or tagged for a meme! I may lose whatever blogging creds I’ve built up over the last few months for saying this, but when Bibliocook tagged me for the wine angle of Basic Juice’s meme with two tails - The Best in the Last 30 — I had to do some research. What is a meme?

A lot of things, apparently. Check out the long entry on Wikipedia. In blog terms, I guess it’s like a mutating idea — passed on from one blogger to the next, slowly contorting and evolving beyond recognition.

The tag came at an opportune time — I just passed my quals! Tearfully and painfully — yes, I literally shed tears during my orals, much to the discomfort of my committee members — but passed nonetheless. I am now deep into a drinking binge — Bibliocook caught me mid-sip.

The wine: Bodegas Iranzo’s Finca Solano Tempranillo Crianza, 2002, avaliable at your local Trader Joe’s. It’s Spanish, it’s organic, and it’s quite yum. Also, it’s cheap enough ($5.99) that I don’t feel bad about downing it in large quantities with Ben & Jerry’s Karamel Sutra. Cuz, right now, I’m in that kind of mood –

And before I pass out, I hereby tag jen of i like to knit for the vegan food leg of this meme, and Fletch of his brand spankin’ new personal blog, Two Heros, for the wine leg.

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Quality and equality in fair trade: Coffee Crisis 106

Posted by Siel in caffeine, fairtrade, losangeles ( at 2:29 am)

[image from Jim’s Organic Coffee]

So I’ve said that Starbucks’ fair trade coffee’s alright on Tea Leaves, but apparently, some disagree. One anonymous reader and ex-Starbucks employee says Starbucks’ fair trade coffee just tastes bad, and that FT days would elicit customer complaints.

Well — I think any discriminating coffee drinker would agree that Starbucks can’t hold a candle to Monkey & Son’s Velvet Hammer. If you’re gonna buy bagged coffee, Starbucks is out, though maybe during the Cafe Estima Blend repackaging, Starbucks improved the beans, which would account for the difference in opinion between anonymous and I. Either that, or my tastebuds just aren’t as refined as I’d like to think.

Still, this is a serious concern, as many coffee drinkers will be coming to fair trade the first time via Starbucks, and may start to associate fair trade with grossness. Why’s Starbucks’ fair trade coffee nasty?

Starbucks isn’t the only chain that’s pushing socio-enviro friendly but tastebud unfriendly coffee. Both I and The Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf’s rep Jay agree — The Bean’s one organic blend is quite gross. Of course, Jay used the unpopularity of this offending coffee to rationalize The Bean’s disinterest in expanding their organic or fair trade offerings.

Could Starbucks and The Bean be intentionally choosing poor quality beans to discourage customer appeals for fair trade organic java?

This concern with quality is one that socio-enviro friendly coffee companies have brought up. Quality is not required for fair trade certification, though quality improvement is encouraged. People like James Cannell, prez of Jim’s Organic Coffees, are leery about guaranteeing a floor price regardless of the bean quality. And according to The Gourmet Retailer, the coffee industry as a whole is primarily concerned about quality, “believing that if retailers don’t have quality coffees to sell, consumers will not return to purchase more.”

Well, yeah. Quality’s important. And gross coffee is a big part of the problem. And to get quality coffee, companies usually have to maintain long term relationships with farmers, which generally encourages fairer trading practices.

But as one who embarassingly bought Folgers as a less-informed young girl, and a witness to Fogers’ continuing popularity on supermarket shelves, I’m not sure quality is the simple solution either. According to the International Institute for Sustainable Development’s 2003 study (careful — 198-page PDF — not for the lighthearted) coffee needs to be of “adequate quality,” but markets don’t always reward superior quality. And worse, even when consumers pay more for superior quality coffees, that money doesn’t necessarily go into improved social or environmental benefits. Their conclusion: “while a quality output is important, it is equally important to consider the process of production and trading relationships in order to improve sustainability.”

Meaning — in an ideal world, all people would drink only high quality, yummy coffees, and the extra money paid for those coffees would go to farmers. In the real world, many people like their sugar with coffee and cream, a la Beastie Boys, and couldn’t care less — or can’t financially afford to care — what the coffee part tastes like.

Still, most socio-enviro friendly coffee companies, are small specialty companies, with a high emphasis on quality. They cater to customers who shun the cheap stuff. I’m wondering if this quality issue is the one Ric of Groundwork Coffee is worried about.

I’ll find out tomorrow, 1:30 p.m, in a fully-caffeinated meeting at Groundwork’s offices.

Update: Details from the Groundwork Coffee meeting with Ric :)

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Death by Smogging: Ultrafine particles in Los Angeles

Posted by Siel in environment, losangeles (September 26, 2005 at 10:19 pm)

[photo by Alan Clements for the LA Weekly]

Sustainablog in Missouri’s more on top of Los Angeles than I am, mentioning, a few days ago, LA Weekly’s “Clear and Present Danger” issue, which I finally picked up a copy of. Apparently, smog’s still killing us softly.

Yes, the visible smog’s gotten much less — visible. But now, we have a new problem — “ultrafine particles,” aka smog particles that’re smaller than viruses, and potent enough to cause cancer and Alzheimer’s, among other deadly diseases.

Even as an environmental advocate, I still thought that the doom and gloom consequences of pollution would hit us sometime in the future. You know, like when I’m like 90, and too senile to care. Apparently not. Cancer deaths stats in the worst areas: 1 in 500 people, according to LA Weekly’s color-coded map. And this isn’t just in San Pedro or the 909 — not that I don’t care about the people there. It hits much closer to my home and heart — like Anaheim, where my mom lives.

As someone who lives far west of the 110 and north of the 10, with a relatively healthy mom, I could still pretend this is a faraway problem. Except that my allergies have gotten far, far worse this year. I’m now up to 3 Claritins a day — up from nada as a teenager. I ran the marathon in March — It seems atheletes suffer from smog-related allergy/asthma in large numbers. Coincidence?

And my sis is a medical resident. According to her, people in LA have lungs with black spots — the kind I saw when the Body Worlds exhibit was in LA. Those belonged to smokers, of course. I haven’t smoked since I was young and naive, but my lungs prolly still look ugly.

If, like me, you live around La Cienega and Pico, your odds of dying from smog-related cancer are “only” 1 in 2000 at worst. But you should be REALLY worried if you live: near LAX, Downtown, around the 710 corridor, in Long Beach near the ports, or in San Bernardino near the 10 and 91. Some of my closest friends work in the first two of those areas.

The #1 smog polluter: Road vehicles. With more and more people driving hour+ commutes from the suburbs, hybrids alone aren’t gonna solve the issue. Still, the MSM articles that give you horrible news without offering any way for individuals to improve things really, really depress me, so if you’re at all concerned, do this:

1. Support enviro-friendly politicians, including:

  • Henry Waxman, assemblyman, 30th district
  • Jenny Oropeza, assemblywoman, 55th district
  • Alan Lowenthal, state senator

2. Pick a line, any line. I’m still a realist, and realize most of us can’t get rid of our cars — I have one myself. But try to get to know at least one of your bus or subway lines. If you’re planning to move, seriously consider moving close to a public transportation hub. And sign up for Flexcar’s updates, so that the car-sharing service — which AOL’s Steve Case recently invested in — knows that if they expand to our areas, we’re totally in.

3. Oppose additional parking structures, and embrace higher-density housing. More and more of us are single adults, and why would anyone hip want to live in a single-family structure in the suburbs anyway? Still, Cali has lots of weird laws requiring mandatory parking spaces for workplaces and restaurants — especially those that serve liquor. I wasn’t aware of this, but evidently, there’s a parking cash-out law that can let you opt to get cash in lieu of a free parking space. If commuting’s an option, ask your employer if you can take advantage of this. Then take a bus to happy hour, and imbibe at your fave restaurant with your newfound dough.

To do my part, I’ll try taking the bus to USC (I already take the BBB to my guitar lessons at SMC). According to the MTA website, it’ll take me 55 mins — 30 mins more than my usual commute including walking time, but maybe I can catch up on my reading during the ride.

This’ll only apply for days when I can commute back home before dark. It is still dangerous out there, especially for the ladies in the house. I get frightening updates about recent muggings from USC’s department of public safety every week.

Otherwise, I’ve got books, and I’ve got my iPod. Line 705 (PDF), here I come.

**Update, 9/27/05: Reuters reports on another depressing smog study — people in the dirtiest areas are more likely to die: “the risk of death rose by 11 to 17 percent from the cleanest parts of Los Angeles to the most polluted areas of Riverside and San Bernardino counties to the east.” (via Blogging.LA)

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Knitted visions of a warm fuzzy future

Posted by Siel in knitting (September 25, 2005 at 6:57 pm)

Woke up this morning with the painful realization (aka hangover) that my orals — the last part of my qualifying exams — are in TWO days.

This put me in full panic mode, which threw me into a frenzy of productive activity. The result: about 1/3 of a scarf (left).

Really, though, I need to do something about this procrastinating habit, which my shrink now fondly refers to as my “drinking problem” (she exaggerates).

In these moments, I quite seriously consider quitting grad school and starting a knit shop. To this Anne chimes in: “I’ve really wanted to make cards.” And Jen’s got new cake decorating skills to throw in the mix. See the first batch of her creations to the right.

Could we open a fair trade knit cafe-bakery-stationary store?

Of course, I really only knit from patterns, and don’t actually produce much work. Anne on her cardmaking talents: “I don’t really know how to make them or anything — I just think it would be cool.” And Jen bakes her cupcakes from a mix. “They come out real spongy,” she says.

Knitted visions of a warm fuzzy future, thwarted mid-hope. In sorrow, I finished reading The Edible Woman. Not really related to my quals, but a very English grad student thing to do nonetheless –

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The big red company that recycles

Posted by Siel in environment, consumerism (September 24, 2005 at 12:01 pm)

So I realize Staples is a red company, but I can find some damn good recycled stuff there that I really can’t find anywhere else, which outweighs the red bit for me. Did some research — Apparently, Staples made a commitment in 2002 to offer more recycled goods, due to pressure from environmental groups, etc.

What I bought:

  • Staples brand 100% recycled 3-tab file folders, minimum 40% post-consumer content. $9.99 for 100 folders.
  • Marcoal bathroom tissue, 100% recycled, minimum 60% post consumer content, not chlorine bleached. $21.29 for 48 rolls.

I can’t find similar recyled goods anywhere else in Los Angeles, which is why I still go to Staples for a lot of my office supplies. There’s a conversation going on at Pandagon about the BuyBlue concept. For those new to BuyBlue, that site/blog gives you information on companies’ financial support toward the Democrat or Republican parties. I commented at Pandagon in defense of BuyBlue — political contributions aren’t the end-all in deciding where one should shop, but certainly a consideration, in my view.

Commitment to recycling, obviously, is another important consideration for me.

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Big changes at Starbucks, sort of

Posted by Siel in caffeine, fairtrade, starbucks challenge, losangeles (September 23, 2005 at 5:31 pm)

Starbucks got back to me! (My last contact with Starbucks headquarters was on 9/4/05, described at the bottom of this post)

Christine, district manager for the Starbucks by USC (Hoover and Jefferson, pictured left), emailed to clear up a few things:

Starbucks no longer features fair trade coffee as “Coffee of the Day” once a month — the initiative has “changed recently,” Christina says, to “Coffee of the Week” (very creative). Now one coffee is featured in all stores for a week — You can find out what’s brewing here.

So although the uniformity bit of it — you know, all of us sipping the exact same coffee in Starbucks clone stores, whether we live in Dekalb or Los Angeles — is rather frightening, when fair trade coffee makes the schedule, it would be served in Starbucks across the nation (maybe even world?) for a whole week! That’s like, tons of fair trade coffee!

An exciting prospect, except that Christine didn’t say how often fair trade would be featured.

She did, however, say that Starbucks has, does, and will always french press a cup of fair trade coffee upon request. And she talked to the manager at the USC Starbucks “to ensure that he coaches all of his partners” about this policy. Thanks Christine! And I’ll be checking up on that — again –

Christine also gave me a heads-up: Starbucks’ Fair Trade Blend will get a new name, “Café Esteema” (sic). I guess I should let her know that Café Estima is already avaliable, at least in the store she manages, though in her defense, the Starbucks website isn’t updated either.

In any case, she believes that “the reasoning behind the name change is because we will soon be adding more coffees to our Fair Trade Certified Coffee Line-Up. This way the “Fair Tradeâ€? will become more of a category that we will be able to add even more of a variety of Fair Trade Certified coffees for you to choose from.”

That’s pretty cool — When?

At least now I have Christine’s number, so hopefully I’ll get answers in less than 3 weeks –

**Update, 11/18/05: Christine’s been MIA since September, and her store’s still not serving fair trade coffee.

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Indie farms and the fair trade conundrum: Coffee Crisis 105

Posted by Siel in caffeine, fairtrade, organic, losangeles (September 22, 2005 at 8:13 pm)

I dropped by Groundwork Coffee a couple days ago, to hang out with my friend Jeff (a little frazzled, left), and to check out their fair trade selections. A local coffee company, Groundwork boasts on its website about their “environmentally friendly, fair trade, shade-grown, and organic coffees.”

“All of it’s fair trade,” said the cashier. Cool. I got a decaf and a vegan banana choc chip muffin.

Then I noticed that none of the bags of coffee had the fair trade certification label. And a poster announced Groundwork Coffee’s fair trade-ness — but carefully omitted the word certified.

This wouldn’t've set off any bells had I not recently run into AH!Laska’s claim about buying their chocolate from “fair trade sources.” I dug through AH!Laska’s site to find out what these sources were — at the very bottom of their FAQ, AH!Laska’s admitted: “We support the principles of fair trade. However, our products do not have fair trade certification.”

Which I took as a total cop out — using the good name of fair trade without actually putting money down on getting stickered. I’ve said before that the FT label is the only way consumers can be sure that everyone in the coffee supply chain actually got paid as promised.

So I emailed Groundwork last night. Are you fair trade certified?

Ric, COO of Groundwork, shot back this morning: No.

But he also gave me his cell phone number, and invited me to visit: “I am personally and professionally open to being convinced that I am wrong, and am waiting for a compelling argument that will change my outlook to be delivered,” he wrote.

Wow. A challenge.

To prep, I did more research — Why do seemingly socio-enviromentally concerned coffee companies choose not to get fair trade certified? It’s seems pretty clear, judging from both Ric’s openness about the business model and the work put into the website describing the company’s relationship with farmers, that Groundwork cares about compensating their coffee farmers fairly. But apparently, Ric has concerns that’re holding him back from fair trade certification. And he said in his email they’re not finance-related (There is a fee to get certified).

This took me to Jeremiah Pick, a coffee roasting company, whose open letter about fair trade coffee was both moving and illuminating. Some of JP’s coffee is fair trade, but not all, for these reasons:

1. Less than 1% of all coffee growers in the world are fair trade farmers; the rest must sell their coffee in the world market.

2. To get fair trade certified, growers MUST be part of a cooperative, non-centralized organization. This eliminates any coffee grower that owns his or her own business.

3. Growers have to go through a farm inspection to get certified, but sometimes growers are made to wait as long as a year for the inspector to come around.

“The reality remains that for every Fair Trade grower, there are numerous impoverished others that for economic, social, geographical or circumstantial reasons cannot become certified…. Mandating a particular method of accomplishing these goals and trying to define what is “fair” will only narrow the number of people who benefit from our efforts and potentially diminish its long-term effects,” opined JP.

Could this be true?

To find out, I called Transfair, the group that does fair trade certification for the US, and caught Christina five minutes before she went out the door.

The short answer: Yes. Why? The main issues, it seems, are Transfair’s (and FLO’s — FLO is the international group, of which Transfair’s like the US branch) limited resources, both in terms of money and (wo)manpower. To maximize both, it seems FLO puts their efforts toward those actions that will produce the most benefits — i.e. co-ops vs. individual farmers.

And yes, there was a wait in the past for inspections in some areas. But that ended in 2004, when FLO started charging fees for inspections — The farms that weren’t serious about certification dropped off the list. “I don’t think there’s a waiting period now,” Christina said, though she’s aware the fee now creates a different, new hurdle for already-struggling farmers who want to get certified.

So, okay. I get that not everyone can get fair trade certified at this point, so not being fair trade certified doesn’t mean a company doesn’t care deeply about its farmers. If Groundwork wants to work directly with individual farmers who aren’t organized into a co-op, more power to them.

But when I called Ric this afternoon, I found out that wasn’t the issue either. “We get some of our coffee from growers that are fair trade certified,” he said. “It’s just that we’re not certified on our end.”

Hmmm. The mystery continues, because Ric was getting off the 405 to pick up his daughter and had to go. We’re to meet, face to face, at Groundwork’s offices next week, to talk certification over coffee.

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