What I, a girl who likes to consider herself a sexuallly open feminist, hate being called: A prude.
This hasn’t actually happened yet.
Still, I’ve felt a bit like a prude, since writing that I won’t shop at American Apparel (Those unfamiliar with the sexual harrassment suits filed against American Apparel and Dov Charney, the CEO, read these past posts, here and here).
And these feelings have gotten more intense of late. Claudine Ko of JANE, who interviewed Dov through 8 masturbation sessions (his, not hers) and at least one blow job from one of his assistants a few years back — is back with a second Dov interview (JANE, Oct. 2005 — not avaliable online, yet). She writes:
“I’m also pissed that people keep miscontruing my story and using it to feed a flawed cliche were men are evil and omnipotent while women are mute victims lacking free will. Who was really exploited? We both were — American Apparel got press, I got one hell of a story, and we both had fun. And that’s it.”
Ok, no. Men are not omnipotent. But the American Apparel question has split passionately sweatshop-free women into two camps — Those who are disgusted by Dov, and those who find his sexually open work style liberating.
After all, many of us have happily fucked a coworker at one time or another. Why not do it in an environment that encourages that sort of thing, that doesn’t require us to hide our sex affairs? Wouldn’t it be nice to get laid on a mattress of organic, sweatshop-free tanktops, with no fear of getting fired?
And to be fair to Dov, his ex-girlfriends still work at American Apparel — A testament of sorts to Dov’s ability to separate sex with coworkers from work with coworkers, even if he’s having sex during work with coworkers.
In fact, American Apparel, in its best PR moments, comes across as a refreshingly sexually liberated haven. “It’s about being free,” Dov says. “It’s about telling the boss, ‘F–k you’” (JANE’s edit, not mine). And Dov’s girlfriend, Thida, is quoted as saying: “I’m not like other girls. People were like, ‘Be careful, he’s a walking erection.’ I wanted to know what a ‘walking erection’ is.”
It’s almost enough to make a girl consider dropping outta grad school to troll the hallways of American Apparel for sexy, adventurous boys who’re always up. For whatever.
Of course, since the first JANE article, Dov’s had some probs — In addition to the sexual harrasment suits, Dov says he’s been rejected by at least one landlord. “I’m a sensitive individual,” he says in JANE, complaining to Ko that he “didn’t want to be written about like this — masturbating.”
Note to CEOs: If you don’t want your masturbatory habits to become news, don’t jack off in front of journalists.
My point? I’m biased here, because I’ve never had a boss I wanted to fuck. Also, I don’t work any more, so maybe I just don’t “get” all of what’s going on in corporate culture these days. Still, as a grad student, I’ve been really grossed out by the verified stories about some of my professors, who’ve not only carried on long affairs with some of their students — which were consensual, and thus not problematic — but also heavily hit on many other students — much to their discomfort — before finding one who would accept their advances.
Meaning that if I happened to be into my boss, it would be fucking cool if he wanted to fuck me too. But if I was hoping for a “regular” boss-employee relationship that was job-performance based, I’d be really pissed — and really uncomfortable — if my boss suggested a blow job performance.
True, I could say: No, I don’t feel like blowing you at this time. And from what Dov says, that would be just fine at his company — no retribution to the employee, or any other sexualy coercive business practices.
Ok, you won’t fire me. Cool, I’ll get my due raises. And hey, thanks for saying I’m still up for promotions.
But you know, if anyone could bring out my inner prude, it’s Dov. And even after all those reassurances, I still don’t think I’d wanna work there.
Update, 1/23/06: Need new clothes and don’t wanna give money to Dov? Find out where to buy socio-eco-friendly clothes in LA.
Update, 6/29/06: A new article on MSNBC about Dov Charney and American Apparel, with a quote from a former American Apparel employee I totally agree with: “I agree with freedom of expression. However, when you combine that with the job setting, when you’re using it as power over other people, that’s inappropriate.”
Update, 12/23/06: American Apparel’s been sold to Endeavor and is poised to become a public company, but “is expected to remain firmly in the grasp of its controversial chief executive, Dov Charney.”
Wow. I am really skeptical that this can actually work at all. I don’t buy it - there’s always an element of power between a boss and a colleague - even two colleagues, depending on their positions, and saying “it’s ok” doesn’t take that away. Not to mention that sleeping with someone you work with rarely ends up turning out well if there’s a nasty breakup.
I won’t be shopping there either.
Comment by BlondebutBright — October 22, 2005 @ 3:54 pm
Don’t be baited into this false choice between “sex positive feminism” and “prudery.” Dov Charney is the same old ass-grabbing CEO, with a new Vice-magazine-tested hipster face. Fact is, neither Dov nor his cult of underaged, undernourished sexual conquests has any idea what a sex positive culture would really look like.
Comment by Vertically Integrated Culturejamming — October 24, 2005 @ 12:10 pm
It seems that some companies, instead of working toward a more gender egalitarian work place, have simply gotten better pitting women against each other —
This whole American Apparel thing would maybe not be so big of an issue if we had more sweatshop-free stores we could walk into and try things on before buying. The web’s great, but most clothes I try on don’t fit the way I want them to, and I always feel bad shipping the stuff back –
Comment by Siel — October 24, 2005 @ 12:53 pm
I’m confused by this apparent belief that Dov has forced every single one of his female employees to fuck him to get to where they are today. I mean, yeah, the man is horny, but he’s not a MACHINE. There exists no evidence that Dov forced any female employee into a sexual relationship, nor had any sexual relationship with an employee that was not consensual.
Furthermore, I don’t understand blondebutbright’s assertion that a boss-colleague relationship can never be kosher because there’s always “an element of power.” Are women so helpless to men more powerful than they are that they can’t be trusted to make informed decisions about their own sex lives in said mens’ presence? Are women now, post sexual revolution, only allowed to sleep with men they outrank? Come on, let a girl decide for herself and give her the benefit of the doubt that she made up her mind as an independent woman who knows what she wants and not a wilting weakling in the thrall of money and power, helpless to resist the Evil Sexual Predator that apparently lurks in every man.
But more importantly: why should a man’s consensual shared masturbation sessions outweigh the very good things he’s doing to help change a traditionally very abusive industry? Why should a leftist concerned with free trade and workers’
rights not shop at a store that is singlehandedly revolutionizing the garment industry by treating its workers like *gasp* human beings and giving them fair wages and benefits and all kinds of perks just because the CEO likes to masturbate or have sex in a consensual setting? What’s more responsible, boycotting AA because Dov Charney masturbates, or supporting AA because Dov treats his largely immigrant staff like real people and helps them integrate into American society rather than paying them slave wages and treating them like so much chattel?
Apparently consensual masturbation is so bad it’s worth potentially endangering the livelihood of a couple thousand workers who are now able to learn English, make use of health insurance, buy houses, support their families and all those
other American Dream type things. Some leftist cred, guys.
And uh… 29 years old and 150 lbs is hardly what I would call malnourished and underaged
Comment by mikaella — October 28, 2005 @ 4:52 pm
Oh c’mon mikaella. Maybe vertically exaggerated a bit with the underaged malnourished thing, but you’re exaggerating too with the “apparant belief that Dov has forced every single one of his female employees to fuck him” crap. Both are hyperboles, I think we can agree.
Of course women can choose to make informed decisions about their own sex lives. My argument here is that this decision shouldn’t have to hinge upon a career choice. It would be great if women could sleep with whoever they wanted — The concern here is that some women are often pressured to consider fucking men they’d rather not fuck, for fear of losing their jobs. Yes, many are strong enough to say no, I don’t wanna — but then many are left feeling really really uncomfortable and upset, feeling their only solution to the situation is to quit the job. Even if Dov’s okay with this discomfort level, I don’t think women should be told to just “suck it up” and get over it.
No, consensual masturbation is not bad. It’s quite yummy, in fact. I’m just wondering what Dov would consider consensual. I mean, if I were poor and felt my job was on the line, it’s possible that I may be tempted to “consensually” masturbate, even though I don’t find Dov sexy.
And seriously, should women have to choose between social justice and sexual harrasment? It’s not like Dov-haters are saying we should all shop at Nike or some other sweatshop-loving chain. We’re all happy that more sweatshop friendly companies are making their mark. We just don’t wanna blow their CEOs.
Comment by Siel — October 29, 2005 @ 12:34 am
Men like sex. Deal with it. Oh wait, you can’t, let’s pass some laws to make it illegal for men to like sex. Ahhh, that’s better.
Prude.
Comment by Randall — January 24, 2006 @ 6:04 am
I’m glad I’m not the only one who refuses to support AA. While no one except Dov and the women who filed the sexual harassment lawsuits really know what happened, the sheer number of incidents, along with the dynamic you described very well of boss & worker interfering with his employees’ ability to make free choices about their sex lives makes me suspect that Dov is not a man I want to support as a feminist. What really convinced me to boycott AA thought is Dov’s attitude toward sweatshop-free products as just another marketing gimmick, not something he really cares about for the benefit of the workers. It seems like it’s all just a big power trip for him, not someone who cares about others’ abilities to make free choices, whether they be sexual or economic.
Comment by aleta — January 31, 2006 @ 11:57 am
Thanks aleta for your thoughts about the sweatshop as a marketing gimmick. I sometimes read articles in which Dov’s quoted talking about about how he’s really proud of the sweatshop free thing, then I read others that talks about it as a marketing gimmick… Not sure about that, though I am glad that, regardless, the stuff’s at least sweatshop free.
Sometimes I wonder if I should moderate and kill pointless comments like Randall. As if women don’t like sex just cuz they’re against sexual coersion –
Comment by Siel — January 31, 2006 @ 4:28 pm
Randall’s got a serious problem. A work environment has nothing to do with sex. Period. Employers who seek out employees for sex are abusing their authority. End of story.
Comment by Dave — February 8, 2006 @ 12:48 am
No, I’m pretty sure that Randall’s a very sex-positive guy who’d just love to watch Dov whack off or to blow him. [rolleyes]
Comment by alsis39.5 — February 8, 2006 @ 9:38 am
Um, Randall didn’t seem to include a URL. I ’spose it’s difficult to type with one hand.
Comment by pat kirby — February 8, 2006 @ 9:46 am