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	<title>Comments on: Why I&#8217;m staying with the Democrats, for now</title>
	<atom:link href="http://greenlagirl.com/2006/02/04/why-im-staying-with-the-democrats-for-now/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://greenlagirl.com/2006/02/04/why-im-staying-with-the-democrats-for-now/</link>
	<description>Urban environmental lifestyle blog in Los Angeles</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 05:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1</generator>
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		<title>By: Siel</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/2006/02/04/why-im-staying-with-the-democrats-for-now/#comment-1556</link>
		<dc:creator>Siel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2006 07:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/2006/02/04/why-im-staying-with-the-democrats-for-now/#comment-1556</guid>
		<description>Jesus, people -- If I were disconnected from society at large and relied solely on my blog for political conversations, I'd think the Greens were the majority party! Hat tip to your green bloggy enthusiasm :)

Something I thought everyone might find interesting:  &lt;a href="http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Money_shot_0208.html"&gt;Nancy Goldstein's latest article in The Raw Story&lt;/a&gt; where she asks 20 bloggers how they'd invest $100 politically, "in the wake of the Alito/judicial nominations debacle." 

An interesting read. I'll warn you though -- Not one person said the Green party. Most opted for non-party-affiliated organizations or individual democratic candidates --</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesus, people &#8212; If I were disconnected from society at large and relied solely on my blog for political conversations, I&#8217;d think the Greens were the majority party! Hat tip to your green bloggy enthusiasm :)</p>
<p>Something I thought everyone might find interesting:  <a href="http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Money_shot_0208.html">Nancy Goldstein&#8217;s latest article in The Raw Story</a> where she asks 20 bloggers how they&#8217;d invest $100 politically, &#8220;in the wake of the Alito/judicial nominations debacle.&#8221; </p>
<p>An interesting read. I&#8217;ll warn you though &#8212; Not one person said the Green party. Most opted for non-party-affiliated organizations or individual democratic candidates &#8211;</p>
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		<title>By: Deanna Taylor</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/2006/02/04/why-im-staying-with-the-democrats-for-now/#comment-1553</link>
		<dc:creator>Deanna Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2006 04:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/2006/02/04/why-im-staying-with-the-democrats-for-now/#comment-1553</guid>
		<description>The Green Party is going to grow by leaps and bounds over the next decade due to the environmental degradation on our planet and the work in which Greens are engaging to attempt to put a stop to it.  The Green Party is the only party that is taking action on ecological and environmental issues.

Here is my take on making decisions based on a personal strategy to effect change:  Go with your beliefs and values.  Personally, I cannot stomach the thought of leaving this life without having stood up for what I believe.  My influence alone is not going to change the world, but what influence I have to influence others, and theirs to influence others and so on....this is what will effect change.  I do not place any hope for changing a system or people that/who are already so far corrupt that there is no light ahead for cure.  I can only push forward with my belief that standing up for the life of the planet is the way to go.

And I can do this through the Green Party.  The only hope I have for saving the life of this planet is through my work in the Green Party with others who share the same values and philosophies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Green Party is going to grow by leaps and bounds over the next decade due to the environmental degradation on our planet and the work in which Greens are engaging to attempt to put a stop to it.  The Green Party is the only party that is taking action on ecological and environmental issues.</p>
<p>Here is my take on making decisions based on a personal strategy to effect change:  Go with your beliefs and values.  Personally, I cannot stomach the thought of leaving this life without having stood up for what I believe.  My influence alone is not going to change the world, but what influence I have to influence others, and theirs to influence others and so on&#8230;.this is what will effect change.  I do not place any hope for changing a system or people that/who are already so far corrupt that there is no light ahead for cure.  I can only push forward with my belief that standing up for the life of the planet is the way to go.</p>
<p>And I can do this through the Green Party.  The only hope I have for saving the life of this planet is through my work in the Green Party with others who share the same values and philosophies.</p>
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		<title>By: Siel</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/2006/02/04/why-im-staying-with-the-democrats-for-now/#comment-1549</link>
		<dc:creator>Siel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2006 19:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/2006/02/04/why-im-staying-with-the-democrats-for-now/#comment-1549</guid>
		<description>(an aside: I went ahead and made corrections to the comments where authors posted additional comments correcting errors in original one -- then deleted the "I made a booboo" type comments just to make things prettier. Hope that's ok with everyone.)

Roger -- What upset me was the "even if it makes logical sense" bit. I agree -- emotions aren't bad -- I encourage everyone here to be passionate -- but in your comment, you made emotion and logic complete dichotomies. As in, you're emotional, and thus illogical.

And &lt;a href="http://greenlagirl.com/2006/01/05/sweet-challenge-unsuccess/#comment-1128" rel="nofollow"&gt;like we've squabbled about before&lt;/a&gt;, I'm of the opinion that there's not necessarily just ONE logical or "best" choice. The "best" choice may be different for different individuals.

It's possible, though, that I've become oversensitive towards "you're too emotional and illogical" type comments. Still, more often than not, my being female has a lot to do with why I'm so often "accused" as being an emotional, irrational person. Perhaps I judged to hastily, but I need a lil more time to cool my emotional heels before returning to this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(an aside: I went ahead and made corrections to the comments where authors posted additional comments correcting errors in original one &#8212; then deleted the &#8220;I made a booboo&#8221; type comments just to make things prettier. Hope that&#8217;s ok with everyone.)</p>
<p>Roger &#8212; What upset me was the &#8220;even if it makes logical sense&#8221; bit. I agree &#8212; emotions aren&#8217;t bad &#8212; I encourage everyone here to be passionate &#8212; but in your comment, you made emotion and logic complete dichotomies. As in, you&#8217;re emotional, and thus illogical.</p>
<p>And <a href="http://greenlagirl.com/2006/01/05/sweet-challenge-unsuccess/#comment-1128" rel="nofollow">like we&#8217;ve squabbled about before</a>, I&#8217;m of the opinion that there&#8217;s not necessarily just ONE logical or &#8220;best&#8221; choice. The &#8220;best&#8221; choice may be different for different individuals.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s possible, though, that I&#8217;ve become oversensitive towards &#8220;you&#8217;re too emotional and illogical&#8221; type comments. Still, more often than not, my being female has a lot to do with why I&#8217;m so often &#8220;accused&#8221; as being an emotional, irrational person. Perhaps I judged to hastily, but I need a lil more time to cool my emotional heels before returning to this.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Meighan</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/2006/02/04/why-im-staying-with-the-democrats-for-now/#comment-1546</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Meighan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2006 18:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/2006/02/04/why-im-staying-with-the-democrats-for-now/#comment-1546</guid>
		<description>NC: &lt;i&gt;"So it seems a big part of what Greens doâ€“is influence Dems."&lt;/i&gt;

And vice versa, of course.  Siel influenced me to ask for fair trade coffee at Starbucks.  I didn't even happen to be at the LA Greens meeting she spoke at, but the advice made its way to me second hand, through another Green, and I did it.  Dem, to Green, to Green.  A double-bank-shot of progressive change.  Lookit' us change the planet!

Patrick Meighan
Los Angeles Greens</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NC: <i>&#8220;So it seems a big part of what Greens doâ€“is influence Dems.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>And vice versa, of course.  Siel influenced me to ask for fair trade coffee at Starbucks.  I didn&#8217;t even happen to be at the LA Greens meeting she spoke at, but the advice made its way to me second hand, through another Green, and I did it.  Dem, to Green, to Green.  A double-bank-shot of progressive change.  Lookit&#8217; us change the planet!</p>
<p>Patrick Meighan<br />
Los Angeles Greens</p>
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		<title>By: NC</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/2006/02/04/why-im-staying-with-the-democrats-for-now/#comment-1542</link>
		<dc:creator>NC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2006 17:36:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/2006/02/04/why-im-staying-with-the-democrats-for-now/#comment-1542</guid>
		<description>So it seems a big part of what Greens do--is influence Dems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So it seems a big part of what Greens do&#8211;is influence Dems.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Meighan</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/2006/02/04/why-im-staying-with-the-democrats-for-now/#comment-1538</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Meighan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2006 17:16:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/2006/02/04/why-im-staying-with-the-democrats-for-now/#comment-1538</guid>
		<description>I'm echoing Siel's request that we try, as hard as we can, to keep civil and pleasant, given that this is such a passionate, intense subject.

And, Siel, thanks for considering IRV.  What IRV really, really needs to fly in Los Angeles is the support of the Democratic Party, and its affiliated clubs.  This is the only way IRV flew in San Francisco: with Green Party impetus and Democratic Party backing.  Without the SF Dems (and their affiliated clubs) IRV never would've come to pass there.  Never.  So.  If after your research, you'd like to contact me about IRV for any reason, my email is:

patsweetpat {at} verizon {dot} net

And, finally, the Starbucks that French pressed me a fair trade coffee upon request (this was last week) is located at 3030 Lincoln Blvd. (cross street: Marine) in Santa Monica.  I had to wait 15 minutes for the coffee to be ready, but I was, at last, served a cup of fair trade coffee.

Thanks, Siel, for this campaign of yours, and for all that you do for progressive change, whatever your party affiliation.

In solidarity,

Patrick Meighan
Los Angeles Greens</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m echoing Siel&#8217;s request that we try, as hard as we can, to keep civil and pleasant, given that this is such a passionate, intense subject.</p>
<p>And, Siel, thanks for considering IRV.  What IRV really, really needs to fly in Los Angeles is the support of the Democratic Party, and its affiliated clubs.  This is the only way IRV flew in San Francisco: with Green Party impetus and Democratic Party backing.  Without the SF Dems (and their affiliated clubs) IRV never would&#8217;ve come to pass there.  Never.  So.  If after your research, you&#8217;d like to contact me about IRV for any reason, my email is:</p>
<p>patsweetpat {at} verizon {dot} net</p>
<p>And, finally, the Starbucks that French pressed me a fair trade coffee upon request (this was last week) is located at 3030 Lincoln Blvd. (cross street: Marine) in Santa Monica.  I had to wait 15 minutes for the coffee to be ready, but I was, at last, served a cup of fair trade coffee.</p>
<p>Thanks, Siel, for this campaign of yours, and for all that you do for progressive change, whatever your party affiliation.</p>
<p>In solidarity,</p>
<p>Patrick Meighan<br />
Los Angeles Greens</p>
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		<title>By: Roger, Gone Green</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/2006/02/04/why-im-staying-with-the-democrats-for-now/#comment-1537</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger, Gone Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2006 17:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/2006/02/04/why-im-staying-with-the-democrats-for-now/#comment-1537</guid>
		<description>NO WAIT! 

I said that &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;I&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; wasn't in the emotional place to make the jump for at least &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;two years&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;, and, recognizing my own [male/human]response, opined that you obviously aren't right now either!  &lt;b&gt;YOU&lt;/b&gt; added the sexist-BS overtones; and may I add, *how*dare*you*.  

I was an active Feminist before you were born, by golly. I was the only male member of the "Dental Wives" club in 1980 when my then wife, Dr. Mitchell, was at Georgetown Dental School. I am currently a stay at home dad, a former trial lawyer who prosecuted sex discrimination and harassment cases on behalf of women professional clients working with and reporting to a female lawfirm partner; my various spouses have all been professionals in their own right, and I did not and WOULD NOT EVER imply that you responded emotionally because you were female.  

You chose that one for yourself.

I did say that party-swapping was a choice that had  a strong emotional component, and that I understood why you where there, since I, testosterone-addled creature that I am, had been there also, and that since you were *obviously* there it did not make sense to push any more.  I was expressing empathy, not &lt;i&gt;anything&lt;/i&gt; derogatory.

Its not my fault that the LA Young Dems had no effect whatsoever on who was chosen to represent that party in the Presidential race, and then endorsed a predictable, mindlessly straight party line.  That orgainization was part of your logical bulwark, not mine. 

 Please be clear that an awareness of our emotional and logical responses to issues -- in both men and women --is valuable in my book, and is something I teach my 6th graders of both genders. 

I &lt;i&gt;am sorry that you took offense. 

I have also consistently said I thought the Greens were best suited to what I knew about you, but that ANY third party or Decline to State would send a similar msg.

You may have the last word; I've said what there is to say on-point, and am done.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NO WAIT! </p>
<p>I said that <i><b>I</b></i> wasn&#8217;t in the emotional place to make the jump for at least <i><b>two years</b></i>, and, recognizing my own [male/human]response, opined that you obviously aren&#8217;t right now either!  <b>YOU</b> added the sexist-BS overtones; and may I add, *how*dare*you*.  </p>
<p>I was an active Feminist before you were born, by golly. I was the only male member of the &#8220;Dental Wives&#8221; club in 1980 when my then wife, Dr. Mitchell, was at Georgetown Dental School. I am currently a stay at home dad, a former trial lawyer who prosecuted sex discrimination and harassment cases on behalf of women professional clients working with and reporting to a female lawfirm partner; my various spouses have all been professionals in their own right, and I did not and WOULD NOT EVER imply that you responded emotionally because you were female.  </p>
<p>You chose that one for yourself.</p>
<p>I did say that party-swapping was a choice that had  a strong emotional component, and that I understood why you where there, since I, testosterone-addled creature that I am, had been there also, and that since you were *obviously* there it did not make sense to push any more.  I was expressing empathy, not <i>anything</i> derogatory.</p>
<p>Its not my fault that the LA Young Dems had no effect whatsoever on who was chosen to represent that party in the Presidential race, and then endorsed a predictable, mindlessly straight party line.  That orgainization was part of your logical bulwark, not mine. </p>
<p> Please be clear that an awareness of our emotional and logical responses to issues &#8212; in both men and women &#8211;is valuable in my book, and is something I teach my 6th graders of both genders. </p>
<p>I <i>am sorry that you took offense. </p>
<p>I have also consistently said I thought the Greens were best suited to what I knew about you, but that ANY third party or Decline to State would send a similar msg.</p>
<p>You may have the last word; I&#8217;ve said what there is to say on-point, and am done.</i></p>
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		<title>By: MiGrant</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/2006/02/04/why-im-staying-with-the-democrats-for-now/#comment-1535</link>
		<dc:creator>MiGrant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2006 15:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/2006/02/04/why-im-staying-with-the-democrats-for-now/#comment-1535</guid>
		<description>So you want to get Republicans out of power -- and replace them with what... Hillary? Back to the glory days of the Clinton administration? If you look at the *direction* the country was already headed then, not just how far we've come down that road since, what difference does it make? Bill even had his own little war-thingy on questionable pretenses going on....

You specifically mentioned Alito -- but you must know that 18 (or was it 19?) D senators voted to block the filibuster that could have prevented his confirmation?

The fact is that Democrats *aren't* keeping Republicans out of power -- they won't even stand up for their own candidates when the Reps steal another election! It took the Greens and Libertarians to start making noise about the vote fraud in Ohio. Ever since Dubya sneaked into office your Dems have nodded and applauded at every move the regime makes. 

Progressives have been trying to reform the Dems from within for over 40 years, and look where it's gotten us. How many more times is Charlie Brown going to let Lucy pull away the football? It's high time we try something new -- like build a real opposition party!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you want to get Republicans out of power &#8212; and replace them with what&#8230; Hillary? Back to the glory days of the Clinton administration? If you look at the *direction* the country was already headed then, not just how far we&#8217;ve come down that road since, what difference does it make? Bill even had his own little war-thingy on questionable pretenses going on&#8230;.</p>
<p>You specifically mentioned Alito &#8212; but you must know that 18 (or was it 19?) D senators voted to block the filibuster that could have prevented his confirmation?</p>
<p>The fact is that Democrats *aren&#8217;t* keeping Republicans out of power &#8212; they won&#8217;t even stand up for their own candidates when the Reps steal another election! It took the Greens and Libertarians to start making noise about the vote fraud in Ohio. Ever since Dubya sneaked into office your Dems have nodded and applauded at every move the regime makes. </p>
<p>Progressives have been trying to reform the Dems from within for over 40 years, and look where it&#8217;s gotten us. How many more times is Charlie Brown going to let Lucy pull away the football? It&#8217;s high time we try something new &#8212; like build a real opposition party!</p>
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		<title>By: Gernot</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/2006/02/04/why-im-staying-with-the-democrats-for-now/#comment-1534</link>
		<dc:creator>Gernot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2006 11:28:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/2006/02/04/why-im-staying-with-the-democrats-for-now/#comment-1534</guid>
		<description>Sorry, but at the moment the Dems are only Reps-Light, too scared to piss-off any political die-hards. That's not the way they will get back into power!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, but at the moment the Dems are only Reps-Light, too scared to piss-off any political die-hards. That&#8217;s not the way they will get back into power!</p>
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		<title>By: Siel</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/2006/02/04/why-im-staying-with-the-democrats-for-now/#comment-1529</link>
		<dc:creator>Siel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2006 08:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/2006/02/04/why-im-staying-with-the-democrats-for-now/#comment-1529</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;you obviously arenâ€™t in the emotional place to make the hop even if it makes logical sense&lt;/i&gt;

Nothing like this kind of cold, hard-line, insular and "you, lil gal, are too 'emotional' to see the 'truth'" sort of comment to drive me away from the greens altogether.

C'mon now Roger -- If you're really interested in people joining the Green party, do you really think derogatory comments will do the trick?

But thanks, everyone else, for your thoughtful comments.

For the record, as I've stated over and over again here, at this moment, I'm most interested in getting the Republicans out of power. That doesn't mean I don't have beef against the Dems. But in my NSHO, first things first. 

I might leave you with this comment of Roger's: "if you are physically active in Dem politics (phone banking, sig gathering, etc.) in areas that are not Dem safe, then you are doing something I canâ€™t argue too much with to keep the Repuglicans at bay"

And a reminder: Our governator's Republican. SoCalians aren't exactly "Dem safe."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>you obviously arenâ€™t in the emotional place to make the hop even if it makes logical sense</i></p>
<p>Nothing like this kind of cold, hard-line, insular and &#8220;you, lil gal, are too &#8216;emotional&#8217; to see the &#8216;truth&#8217;&#8221; sort of comment to drive me away from the greens altogether.</p>
<p>C&#8217;mon now Roger &#8212; If you&#8217;re really interested in people joining the Green party, do you really think derogatory comments will do the trick?</p>
<p>But thanks, everyone else, for your thoughtful comments.</p>
<p>For the record, as I&#8217;ve stated over and over again here, at this moment, I&#8217;m most interested in getting the Republicans out of power. That doesn&#8217;t mean I don&#8217;t have beef against the Dems. But in my NSHO, first things first. </p>
<p>I might leave you with this comment of Roger&#8217;s: &#8220;if you are physically active in Dem politics (phone banking, sig gathering, etc.) in areas that are not Dem safe, then you are doing something I canâ€™t argue too much with to keep the Repuglicans at bay&#8221;</p>
<p>And a reminder: Our governator&#8217;s Republican. SoCalians aren&#8217;t exactly &#8220;Dem safe.&#8221;</p>
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