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	<title>Comments on: Draft L.A. Bicycle Plan released, cyclist complaints begin before reading</title>
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	<link>http://greenlagirl.com/draft-l-a-bicycle-plan-released-cyclist-complaints-begin-before-reading/</link>
	<description>Urban environmental lifestyle blog in Los Angeles</description>
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		<title>By: Siel</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/draft-l-a-bicycle-plan-released-cyclist-complaints-begin-before-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-477724</link>
		<dc:creator>Siel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 00:41:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/?p=12117#comment-477724</guid>
		<description>Wait -- So it looks like a Northeast meeting got added! Who made that happen?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait &#8212; So it looks like a Northeast meeting got added! Who made that happen?</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Linton</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/draft-l-a-bicycle-plan-released-cyclist-complaints-begin-before-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-477571</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Linton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 07:07:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/?p=12117#comment-477571</guid>
		<description>I am not as cute as Siel, but I can answer... The city of LA is hosting 5 meetings on the plan - starting October 22nd (this Thursday.) See the meetings listed here:
http://www.labikeplan.org/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not as cute as Siel, but I can answer&#8230; The city of LA is hosting 5 meetings on the plan &#8211; starting October 22nd (this Thursday.) See the meetings listed here:<br />
<a href="http://www.labikeplan.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.labikeplan.org/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Darren Moore</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/draft-l-a-bicycle-plan-released-cyclist-complaints-begin-before-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-477122</link>
		<dc:creator>Darren Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 02:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/?p=12117#comment-477122</guid>
		<description>Siel, Any update on a meeting about the bicycle plan?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Siel, Any update on a meeting about the bicycle plan?</p>
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		<title>By: ramonchu</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/draft-l-a-bicycle-plan-released-cyclist-complaints-begin-before-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-472617</link>
		<dc:creator>ramonchu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 21:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/?p=12117#comment-472617</guid>
		<description>A much more constructive article than that which I just read at streetsblog (though Box&#039;s analysis is informative). Nonetheless, all cyclists angry at the delay and at the expedited comment time frame are right to be so--we pay the people down at LADOT, and so when they pull saboteur like stunts at cyclists expense ON OUR DOLLAR, believe there will be anger. 

Anyhow, I was upset to see no Bike Plan presentations scheduled for the East/NorthEast side, and so I&#039;m thinking about going ahead and setting up one of these &quot;requestable&quot; workshops at the Bike Oven.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A much more constructive article than that which I just read at streetsblog (though Box&#8217;s analysis is informative). Nonetheless, all cyclists angry at the delay and at the expedited comment time frame are right to be so&#8211;we pay the people down at LADOT, and so when they pull saboteur like stunts at cyclists expense ON OUR DOLLAR, believe there will be anger. </p>
<p>Anyhow, I was upset to see no Bike Plan presentations scheduled for the East/NorthEast side, and so I&#8217;m thinking about going ahead and setting up one of these &#8220;requestable&#8221; workshops at the Bike Oven.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Linton</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/draft-l-a-bicycle-plan-released-cyclist-complaints-begin-before-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-472229</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Linton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:55:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/?p=12117#comment-472229</guid>
		<description>There are new maps - see chapter 4 of the plan. As far as I can tell, they&#039;re more-or-less the same maps, but the &quot;infeasible&quot; wording is now &quot;potential&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are new maps &#8211; see chapter 4 of the plan. As far as I can tell, they&#8217;re more-or-less the same maps, but the &#8220;infeasible&#8221; wording is now &#8220;potential&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Gary K.</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/draft-l-a-bicycle-plan-released-cyclist-complaints-begin-before-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-472228</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:49:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/?p=12117#comment-472228</guid>
		<description>The proposed bikeway maps they have for download still read infeasible, so I was not aware they had changed the name of that designation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The proposed bikeway maps they have for download still read infeasible, so I was not aware they had changed the name of that designation.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Linton</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/draft-l-a-bicycle-plan-released-cyclist-complaints-begin-before-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-472224</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Linton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:37:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/?p=12117#comment-472224</guid>
		<description>I completely agree that right now the important questions to be asking are along the lines of &quot;What can we do now&quot; and &quot;where can we squeeze some improved conditions for bikes onto our streets, etc.?&quot;

A couple responses to items above:

- the maps weren&#039;t released accidentally. They were released intentionally in advance of the text 

- the &quot;infeasible&quot; designation (&quot;PCI - Proposed but Currently Infeasible&quot; which was on the initial draft maps released in May) has been replaced by &quot;potential bicycle lane&quot; ... which is definitely a semantic improvement... but not the end of the discussion.
  The plan now has &quot;proposed lanes&quot; and &quot;potential lanes.&quot; Proposed is apparently a sort of medium-strong-maybe and potential is sort of a weak-maybe.
  I would suggest that many of the streets designated potential (formerly-known-as-infeasible) should actually go in the proposed category.
  For example, Reseda Boulevard, (a portion of which was actually just painted with bike lanes last week - yay!) is still just listed as potential (in May, listed as &quot;infeasible&quot;)... all that to say that I think bicyclist might do well to push for a lot of the now &quot;potential&quot; lanes to be moved into the &quot;proposed&quot; category.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely agree that right now the important questions to be asking are along the lines of &#8220;What can we do now&#8221; and &#8220;where can we squeeze some improved conditions for bikes onto our streets, etc.?&#8221;</p>
<p>A couple responses to items above:</p>
<p>- the maps weren&#8217;t released accidentally. They were released intentionally in advance of the text </p>
<p>- the &#8220;infeasible&#8221; designation (&#8220;PCI &#8211; Proposed but Currently Infeasible&#8221; which was on the initial draft maps released in May) has been replaced by &#8220;potential bicycle lane&#8221; &#8230; which is definitely a semantic improvement&#8230; but not the end of the discussion.<br />
  The plan now has &#8220;proposed lanes&#8221; and &#8220;potential lanes.&#8221; Proposed is apparently a sort of medium-strong-maybe and potential is sort of a weak-maybe.<br />
  I would suggest that many of the streets designated potential (formerly-known-as-infeasible) should actually go in the proposed category.<br />
  For example, Reseda Boulevard, (a portion of which was actually just painted with bike lanes last week &#8211; yay!) is still just listed as potential (in May, listed as &#8220;infeasible&#8221;)&#8230; all that to say that I think bicyclist might do well to push for a lot of the now &#8220;potential&#8221; lanes to be moved into the &#8220;proposed&#8221; category.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary K.</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/draft-l-a-bicycle-plan-released-cyclist-complaints-begin-before-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-472214</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/?p=12117#comment-472214</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m still optimistic or wouldn&#039;t be so interested, but was trying to put some of the pessimism into context and I can relate when fellow LA cycling bloggers can get frustrated. Besides being very busy the past several months, getting too negative was one of the reasons I took a break from writing. 

One bit of positive news I want to dig more into in the document is it looks like they actually have some good ideas for the &quot;Bicycle Friendly&quot; street designation. When I first saw the map I thought it was going to be PR fluff like Class III bicycle routes. If they actually do things like round abouts and other traffic calming and alternatives to constant stop signs which suck for bicycle travel, then there could be some good things coming, hopefully if the document goes into action this time around. 

The infeasible designation really needs to go though, even if not labeled for bike lane, at least something less self defeating than infeasible. What an up hill battle it would be to fight for bicycle improvements on a corridor with an infeasible label hanging over it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m still optimistic or wouldn&#8217;t be so interested, but was trying to put some of the pessimism into context and I can relate when fellow LA cycling bloggers can get frustrated. Besides being very busy the past several months, getting too negative was one of the reasons I took a break from writing. </p>
<p>One bit of positive news I want to dig more into in the document is it looks like they actually have some good ideas for the &#8220;Bicycle Friendly&#8221; street designation. When I first saw the map I thought it was going to be PR fluff like Class III bicycle routes. If they actually do things like round abouts and other traffic calming and alternatives to constant stop signs which suck for bicycle travel, then there could be some good things coming, hopefully if the document goes into action this time around. </p>
<p>The infeasible designation really needs to go though, even if not labeled for bike lane, at least something less self defeating than infeasible. What an up hill battle it would be to fight for bicycle improvements on a corridor with an infeasible label hanging over it.</p>
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		<title>By: Siel</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/draft-l-a-bicycle-plan-released-cyclist-complaints-begin-before-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-472211</link>
		<dc:creator>Siel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/?p=12117#comment-472211</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the &quot;infeasible&quot; explanation -- That makes more sense :P

I don&#039;t disagree with you at all about how bad things can be on the road, or how bad LA&#039;s track record has been when it comes to bike infrastructure. Certainly there is room for skepticism -- but I just think there&#039;s still space for cautious optimism. The plan, albeit v. late, is finally here. And I&#039;m hoping we&#039;ll still all have enough cautious optimism and energy to stay involved with it and take action -- via working to get more meetings set up, etc. -- to make it as strong as it can be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the &#8220;infeasible&#8221; explanation &#8212; That makes more sense :P</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t disagree with you at all about how bad things can be on the road, or how bad LA&#8217;s track record has been when it comes to bike infrastructure. Certainly there is room for skepticism &#8212; but I just think there&#8217;s still space for cautious optimism. The plan, albeit v. late, is finally here. And I&#8217;m hoping we&#8217;ll still all have enough cautious optimism and energy to stay involved with it and take action &#8212; via working to get more meetings set up, etc. &#8212; to make it as strong as it can be.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary K.</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/draft-l-a-bicycle-plan-released-cyclist-complaints-begin-before-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-472209</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:40:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/?p=12117#comment-472209</guid>
		<description>Some more explanation could have been provided but the Bike Girl post I think was mostly a sarcastic one, and the reference to infeasible is a poke at the fact that many streets formerly planned for bike lanes are now labeled &quot;infeasible&quot;. When the map was apparently accidentally released early weeks ago there was lot of talk about the new &quot;unfeasible&quot; designation of streets in the plan, something that has not changed in this release. 

I plan to go through the document and write a more detailed post about the bike plan soon, but the LADOT track record on bicycle issues does not inspire confidence as much as I would like to be optimistic about things. Some communities in the nowhere zone of meetings have lobbied for meetings and presentations and been denied. The LACBC started lobbying for sharrows in the absence of being able to secure bike lanes on many streets 3 or 4 years ago. It got pushed back, pushed back, promised for this year, pushed back some and maybe next year we will see paint on the ground. When it takes a department 4-5 years to put some stencils on the ground despite Long Beach going from concept to paint in half a year, it&#039;s not hard to view anything the LADOT says concerning bikes with a load of suspicion that any action will follow. They seriously said the sharrows might be slippery as an excuse for delays, despite their wide spread application in Portland and Seattle, where it actually gets wet. 

Things might not seem so bad riding around Santa Monica, but that isn&#039;t what most people in Los Angeles have to deal with, it&#039;s a different world in places like Hollywood, Downtown, and East and South LA. Maybe try riding in it and you&#039;ll relate to the pessimism that creeps up on bicycle advocates from time to time. It&#039;s a constant battle to try and be positive about things when you are periodically honked at, cut off, nearly clipped by mirrors and having trash thrown at you riding in some parts of LA. Then you come home and read on the forums someone you know or a friend of friend is in bandages and having to replace a bike after being hit by a hit and run driver to cap off the evening. Sometimes the only way for me to stay positive is to not read what is going on, because the more you know, the worse things are out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some more explanation could have been provided but the Bike Girl post I think was mostly a sarcastic one, and the reference to infeasible is a poke at the fact that many streets formerly planned for bike lanes are now labeled &#8220;infeasible&#8221;. When the map was apparently accidentally released early weeks ago there was lot of talk about the new &#8220;unfeasible&#8221; designation of streets in the plan, something that has not changed in this release. </p>
<p>I plan to go through the document and write a more detailed post about the bike plan soon, but the LADOT track record on bicycle issues does not inspire confidence as much as I would like to be optimistic about things. Some communities in the nowhere zone of meetings have lobbied for meetings and presentations and been denied. The LACBC started lobbying for sharrows in the absence of being able to secure bike lanes on many streets 3 or 4 years ago. It got pushed back, pushed back, promised for this year, pushed back some and maybe next year we will see paint on the ground. When it takes a department 4-5 years to put some stencils on the ground despite Long Beach going from concept to paint in half a year, it&#8217;s not hard to view anything the LADOT says concerning bikes with a load of suspicion that any action will follow. They seriously said the sharrows might be slippery as an excuse for delays, despite their wide spread application in Portland and Seattle, where it actually gets wet. </p>
<p>Things might not seem so bad riding around Santa Monica, but that isn&#8217;t what most people in Los Angeles have to deal with, it&#8217;s a different world in places like Hollywood, Downtown, and East and South LA. Maybe try riding in it and you&#8217;ll relate to the pessimism that creeps up on bicycle advocates from time to time. It&#8217;s a constant battle to try and be positive about things when you are periodically honked at, cut off, nearly clipped by mirrors and having trash thrown at you riding in some parts of LA. Then you come home and read on the forums someone you know or a friend of friend is in bandages and having to replace a bike after being hit by a hit and run driver to cap off the evening. Sometimes the only way for me to stay positive is to not read what is going on, because the more you know, the worse things are out there.</p>
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