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	<title>Comments on: Saturday surveys: The Whole Foods &#8211; health care debacle</title>
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	<link>http://greenlagirl.com/saturday-surveys-the-whole-foods-health-care-debacle/</link>
	<description>Urban environmental lifestyle blog in Los Angeles</description>
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		<title>By: Steven</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/saturday-surveys-the-whole-foods-health-care-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-464904</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 02:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/?p=10979#comment-464904</guid>
		<description>The CEO of Whole Foods as written a well thought-out, well-considered set of options which together would have far more positive impact than any silly plan Obama has come up with.

I fully support Whole Foods in this endeavour--and backed it with my $$$ this weekend.

Good job guys!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The CEO of Whole Foods as written a well thought-out, well-considered set of options which together would have far more positive impact than any silly plan Obama has come up with.</p>
<p>I fully support Whole Foods in this endeavour&#8211;and backed it with my $$$ this weekend.</p>
<p>Good job guys!</p>
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		<title>By: Shawn</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/saturday-surveys-the-whole-foods-health-care-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-464539</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 22:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/?p=10979#comment-464539</guid>
		<description>@Erica
By all of the metrics used to gauge such matters, the world is living better for our investment. America and its privatized healthcare system leads the world in innovation and the world benefits from our discoveries. In other countries where they have cheaper &quot;generic&quot; medications, those are usually based off of the name-brand products that our system provides. This way, the generic drug companies don&#039;t have to incur the cost of drug discovery, which may cost as much as $800,000,000. (http://www.cptech.org/ip/health/econ/dimasi2003.pdf) Indeed, we are better for our innovation. http://cfpub.epa.gov/eroe/index.cfm?fuseaction=detail.viewMidImg&amp;lShowInd=0&amp;subtop=381&amp;lv=list.listByAlpha&amp;r=201585 shows the decreasing mortality rates among many killers. This was only made possible by medical research...research that cost money. 

I would be more willing to accept that the US government could run a healthcare system that included a public option if it hadn&#039;t proven time and time again its complete failure to manage other social entitlement programs. Social Security is going broke. Medicare is going broke. In fact, we are going so far in to debt that in the American Reinvestment and Recovery Act of 2009, congress had to increase the public debt limit to $12,104,000,000,000 (that&#039;s trillion) (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_public_laws&amp;docid=f:publ005.pdf section 1604). The national deficit (the amount that we spend over the amount we have annually) is ever increasing, with projections putting it at about 12% of our GDP in the year 2010 (http://cbo.gov/). It is my opinion that with a single-party system we have unleashed on our country, we have effectively let loose a stampede of fat kids in a candy store. 

Our healthcare needs reform, but it isn&#039;t in nearly as much of a crisis as has been stated. That 46M figure of uninsured includes illegal and legal aliens (non Americans), people who make over $75,000/yr and can afford it on their own, as well as many young people who have decided it is an acceptable risk not to have it, and won&#039;t need it until they are older. That leaves about 8 million people &quot;chronically uninsured&quot; (http://www.allbusiness.com/government/government-bodies-offices/12706429-1.html)(note, they are referencing a study done by CNN). So we&#039;re going to spend $1.3T over the next 10 years to insure 8 million people...that&#039;s $16,250 per person, per year. I just saw a commercial from assurance health saying they have plans starting as low as $100/month ($1,200 a year). This public option doesn&#039;t seem like a good idea to me. Once we run our economy completely into the ground, the public sector won&#039;t be able to pay for a fly swatter necessitated by all the rotting pork in Washington. 

My solution: 

Dissuade people from adopting this feeling of entitlement. People need to learn how to take care of themselves. Allow for HSA&#039;s and promote more catastrophic care plans (which would be a tax penalty under the currently proposed bill). 
We must have tort reform. The cost of malpractice insurance is a huge factor in healthcare costs. Eliminate that looming cost, and healthcare becomes more affordable. Illegal aliens should still be treated at ERs in this country. Then they should be deported and have a bill sent to their government. If the government doesn&#039;t pay, we impose sanctions thus making other governments enforce our immigration law 

--quick sidebar: I hear people in countries such as Canada say it is unfair that in America we can just &quot;Jump the line&quot; for healthcare. I think it&#039;s odd that the same people who say that in our country are the ones advocating that illegal immigrants jump to the front of the line in our system. It is simply unfair that they can do that to people who have waited patiently and followed all the rules to enter our country. end of sidebar – 

I think that about covers it. If I missed something, let me know!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Erica<br />
By all of the metrics used to gauge such matters, the world is living better for our investment. America and its privatized healthcare system leads the world in innovation and the world benefits from our discoveries. In other countries where they have cheaper &#8220;generic&#8221; medications, those are usually based off of the name-brand products that our system provides. This way, the generic drug companies don&#8217;t have to incur the cost of drug discovery, which may cost as much as $800,000,000. (<a href="http://www.cptech.org/ip/health/econ/dimasi2003.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.cptech.org/ip/health/econ/dimasi2003.pdf</a>) Indeed, we are better for our innovation. <a href="http://cfpub.epa.gov/eroe/index.cfm?fuseaction=detail.viewMidImg&#038;lShowInd=0&#038;subtop=381&#038;lv=list.listByAlpha&#038;r=201585" rel="nofollow">http://cfpub.epa.gov/eroe/index.cfm?fuseaction=detail.viewMidImg&#038;lShowInd=0&#038;subtop=381&#038;lv=list.listByAlpha&#038;r=201585</a> shows the decreasing mortality rates among many killers. This was only made possible by medical research&#8230;research that cost money. </p>
<p>I would be more willing to accept that the US government could run a healthcare system that included a public option if it hadn&#8217;t proven time and time again its complete failure to manage other social entitlement programs. Social Security is going broke. Medicare is going broke. In fact, we are going so far in to debt that in the American Reinvestment and Recovery Act of 2009, congress had to increase the public debt limit to $12,104,000,000,000 (that&#8217;s trillion) (<a href="http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_public_laws&#038;docid=f:publ005.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_public_laws&#038;docid=f:publ005.pdf</a> section 1604). The national deficit (the amount that we spend over the amount we have annually) is ever increasing, with projections putting it at about 12% of our GDP in the year 2010 (<a href="http://cbo.gov/" rel="nofollow">http://cbo.gov/</a>). It is my opinion that with a single-party system we have unleashed on our country, we have effectively let loose a stampede of fat kids in a candy store. </p>
<p>Our healthcare needs reform, but it isn&#8217;t in nearly as much of a crisis as has been stated. That 46M figure of uninsured includes illegal and legal aliens (non Americans), people who make over $75,000/yr and can afford it on their own, as well as many young people who have decided it is an acceptable risk not to have it, and won&#8217;t need it until they are older. That leaves about 8 million people &#8220;chronically uninsured&#8221; (<a href="http://www.allbusiness.com/government/government-bodies-offices/12706429-1.html)(note" rel="nofollow">http://www.allbusiness.com/government/government-bodies-offices/12706429-1.html)(note</a>, they are referencing a study done by CNN). So we&#8217;re going to spend $1.3T over the next 10 years to insure 8 million people&#8230;that&#8217;s $16,250 per person, per year. I just saw a commercial from assurance health saying they have plans starting as low as $100/month ($1,200 a year). This public option doesn&#8217;t seem like a good idea to me. Once we run our economy completely into the ground, the public sector won&#8217;t be able to pay for a fly swatter necessitated by all the rotting pork in Washington. </p>
<p>My solution: </p>
<p>Dissuade people from adopting this feeling of entitlement. People need to learn how to take care of themselves. Allow for HSA&#8217;s and promote more catastrophic care plans (which would be a tax penalty under the currently proposed bill).<br />
We must have tort reform. The cost of malpractice insurance is a huge factor in healthcare costs. Eliminate that looming cost, and healthcare becomes more affordable. Illegal aliens should still be treated at ERs in this country. Then they should be deported and have a bill sent to their government. If the government doesn&#8217;t pay, we impose sanctions thus making other governments enforce our immigration law </p>
<p>&#8211;quick sidebar: I hear people in countries such as Canada say it is unfair that in America we can just &#8220;Jump the line&#8221; for healthcare. I think it&#8217;s odd that the same people who say that in our country are the ones advocating that illegal immigrants jump to the front of the line in our system. It is simply unfair that they can do that to people who have waited patiently and followed all the rules to enter our country. end of sidebar – </p>
<p>I think that about covers it. If I missed something, let me know!</p>
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		<title>By: Erica</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/saturday-surveys-the-whole-foods-health-care-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-464497</link>
		<dc:creator>Erica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 20:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/?p=10979#comment-464497</guid>
		<description>@Shawn 

Did I say that I was trying to take down capitalism?  We have lots of services in our society that aren&#039;t provided by purely for-profit entities because it just wouldn&#039;t work.  How we have decided that socialized fire departments are okay but health care is not just confuses me.  We pay more for health care in this country than any other industrialized nation but we get less for that money.  By all of the metrics used to gauge such matters, we aren&#039;t living better or longer for that investment.  Infant mortality and maternal mortality are horrible (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/16/health/16infant.html and http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/80743.php).

A free market solution doesn&#039;t work for healthcare (http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/why-markets-cant-cure-healthcare/), but that doesn&#039;t preclude a regulated market solution.  The Netherlands does that well (http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/07/05/healthy_examples_plenty_of_countries_get_healthcare_right/?page=1).  Progressives are understandably wary of anything involving regulation since Congress (and in my opinion, Republican administrations) has historically gutted regulatory power or created a revolving door between government and industry so that the regulations become ineffective.  

Do you genuinely not see health care in this country as a crisis?  If so, what is your solution?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Shawn </p>
<p>Did I say that I was trying to take down capitalism?  We have lots of services in our society that aren&#8217;t provided by purely for-profit entities because it just wouldn&#8217;t work.  How we have decided that socialized fire departments are okay but health care is not just confuses me.  We pay more for health care in this country than any other industrialized nation but we get less for that money.  By all of the metrics used to gauge such matters, we aren&#8217;t living better or longer for that investment.  Infant mortality and maternal mortality are horrible (<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/16/health/16infant.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/16/health/16infant.html</a> and <a href="http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/80743.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/80743.php</a>).</p>
<p>A free market solution doesn&#8217;t work for healthcare (<a href="http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/why-markets-cant-cure-healthcare/" rel="nofollow">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/why-markets-cant-cure-healthcare/</a>), but that doesn&#8217;t preclude a regulated market solution.  The Netherlands does that well (<a href="http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/07/05/healthy_examples_plenty_of_countries_get_healthcare_right/?page=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/07/05/healthy_examples_plenty_of_countries_get_healthcare_right/?page=1</a>).  Progressives are understandably wary of anything involving regulation since Congress (and in my opinion, Republican administrations) has historically gutted regulatory power or created a revolving door between government and industry so that the regulations become ineffective.  </p>
<p>Do you genuinely not see health care in this country as a crisis?  If so, what is your solution?</p>
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		<title>By: Shawn</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/saturday-surveys-the-whole-foods-health-care-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-464488</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 20:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/?p=10979#comment-464488</guid>
		<description>My last was also @Rachel</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My last was also @Rachel</p>
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		<title>By: Shawn</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/saturday-surveys-the-whole-foods-health-care-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-464487</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 20:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/?p=10979#comment-464487</guid>
		<description>@Erica,

Our society does currently provide healthcare to our citizens. Federal law prohibits an ER from turning anyone away, regardless of their insurance coverage or ability to pay.
You say you vote with your dollars, so you understand the importance of money in our society. Money enables and, on a lesser scale, incentivizes medical research and innovation.  Profits in the insurance and pharmaceudical industries in America are used for research, reward, and are eventually filtered back into the economy through spending. It&#039;s a big synergistic cycle of goodness. Capitalism sucks, until you compare it to every other system ever tried.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Erica,</p>
<p>Our society does currently provide healthcare to our citizens. Federal law prohibits an ER from turning anyone away, regardless of their insurance coverage or ability to pay.<br />
You say you vote with your dollars, so you understand the importance of money in our society. Money enables and, on a lesser scale, incentivizes medical research and innovation.  Profits in the insurance and pharmaceudical industries in America are used for research, reward, and are eventually filtered back into the economy through spending. It&#8217;s a big synergistic cycle of goodness. Capitalism sucks, until you compare it to every other system ever tried.</p>
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