Comments on: Tuesday questions: A carless culture http://greenlagirl.com/tuesday-questions-a-carless-culture/ Urban environmental lifestyle blog in Los Angeles Thu, 09 Feb 2012 22:11:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Siel http://greenlagirl.com/tuesday-questions-a-carless-culture/comment-page-1/#comment-9385 Siel Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:53:40 +0000 http://greenlagirl.com/2006/07/04/tuesday-questions-a-carless-culture/#comment-9385 Thanks Frred! And I like what yr trying to do with MetroRiderLA :) Let's keep in touch and collaborate -- Thanks Frred! And I like what yr trying to do with MetroRiderLA :) Let’s keep in touch and collaborate –

]]> By: Fred Camino http://greenlagirl.com/tuesday-questions-a-carless-culture/comment-page-1/#comment-9332 Fred Camino Wed, 26 Jul 2006 00:07:57 +0000 http://greenlagirl.com/2006/07/04/tuesday-questions-a-carless-culture/#comment-9332 I really like this "careless culture" series you are doing. It's something we really need, and something I've been trying to promote with my blog, <a href="http://metrorider.elhay.net/" rel="nofollow">MetroRiderLA</a>. The whole goal of my blog is similar to the question you post here which is how do we make public transit desirable? My idea is that we need to create a lifestyle around it, we all just need to ride and and then come together and talk about it. Not everything desirable is perfect and beautiful, and god knows the MTA system is often far from perfect and beatiful. But sometimes it does work, and when it works it's really nice and you see what could be possible. I think it just takes making the jump and then talking about it. You have to realize that there will be sacrifices and that it wont be a flawless way to get around, but there is no flawless way to get around, everything is a give and take. But once you make the jump and make it work for you, soon your friends will be doing it too, and then their friends and so on and so forth. Suddenly you'll be talking about buses and trains at parties, telling stories, the things you like the things you hate... a pulbic tranist lifestyle will form. I urge everyone who is interested to get involved. Take a look at some of the links on MetroRiderLA, or even better, contribute to the blog, i really want it to be a resource for everyone. Thanks again for this series. I really like this “careless culture” series you are doing. It’s something we really need, and something I’ve been trying to promote with my blog, MetroRiderLA. The whole goal of my blog is similar to the question you post here which is how do we make public transit desirable? My idea is that we need to create a lifestyle around it, we all just need to ride and and then come together and talk about it. Not everything desirable is perfect and beautiful, and god knows the MTA system is often far from perfect and beatiful. But sometimes it does work, and when it works it’s really nice and you see what could be possible. I think it just takes making the jump and then talking about it. You have to realize that there will be sacrifices and that it wont be a flawless way to get around, but there is no flawless way to get around, everything is a give and take. But once you make the jump and make it work for you, soon your friends will be doing it too, and then their friends and so on and so forth. Suddenly you’ll be talking about buses and trains at parties, telling stories, the things you like the things you hate… a pulbic tranist lifestyle will form.

I urge everyone who is interested to get involved. Take a look at some of the links on MetroRiderLA, or even better, contribute to the blog, i really want it to be a resource for everyone.

Thanks again for this series.

]]> By: Siel http://greenlagirl.com/tuesday-questions-a-carless-culture/comment-page-1/#comment-8242 Siel Sat, 08 Jul 2006 02:38:36 +0000 http://greenlagirl.com/2006/07/04/tuesday-questions-a-carless-culture/#comment-8242 Wow! Such awesome ideas here! If only we made up the MTA! :P Okay -- I think that to continue this convo, it'll be important that we separate these ideas out -- you know, between walking, biking, and public transportation, at the very least. Will work on 3 new posts accordingly, incorporating the ideas named here, to open it up for further brainsroming. You guys rock! Wow! Such awesome ideas here! If only we made up the MTA! :P

Okay — I think that to continue this convo, it’ll be important that we separate these ideas out — you know, between walking, biking, and public transportation, at the very least.

Will work on 3 new posts accordingly, incorporating the ideas named here, to open it up for further brainsroming. You guys rock!

]]> By: simon http://greenlagirl.com/tuesday-questions-a-carless-culture/comment-page-1/#comment-8229 simon Sat, 08 Jul 2006 00:52:13 +0000 http://greenlagirl.com/2006/07/04/tuesday-questions-a-carless-culture/#comment-8229 can't find the source I guess it is in german. However this article quotes it. http://money.guardian.co.uk/ethicalliving/story/0,,1719762,00.html the line in question. <em>Meanwhile, a study in 1994 by the Environment and Forecasting Institute in Heidelberg, Germany, looked at the full impact of a "medium-sized car" driven for 13,000km a year for 10 years. It concluded that the extraction of the raw materials for each car alone produced 25 tonnes of waste and 922m cubic metres of "polluted air". This compared with 2,040m cubic metres of polluted air for the full life-cycle of the vehicle, meaning that the manufacturing stage was roughly responsible for 45%.</em> can’t find the source I guess it is in german. However this article quotes it. http://money.guardian.co.uk/ethicalliving/story/0,,1719762,00.html
the line in question.
Meanwhile, a study in 1994 by the Environment and Forecasting Institute in Heidelberg, Germany, looked at the full impact of a “medium-sized car” driven for 13,000km a year for 10 years. It concluded that the extraction of the raw materials for each car alone produced 25 tonnes of waste and 922m cubic metres of “polluted air”. This compared with 2,040m cubic metres of polluted air for the full life-cycle of the vehicle, meaning that the manufacturing stage was roughly responsible for 45%.

]]> By: Chris Martell http://greenlagirl.com/tuesday-questions-a-carless-culture/comment-page-1/#comment-8207 Chris Martell Fri, 07 Jul 2006 17:13:38 +0000 http://greenlagirl.com/2006/07/04/tuesday-questions-a-carless-culture/#comment-8207 To Simon: This is fascinating. Do you have a source, or link to this study, I would really like to learn more. Thanks! To Simon:

This is fascinating. Do you have a source, or link to this study, I would really like to learn more. Thanks!

]]> By: simon http://greenlagirl.com/tuesday-questions-a-carless-culture/comment-page-1/#comment-8157 simon Fri, 07 Jul 2006 00:12:52 +0000 http://greenlagirl.com/2006/07/04/tuesday-questions-a-carless-culture/#comment-8157 What you need to do is get people to keep cars longer. A study in germany said that the emissions from the manufacture of a car was roughly equal to 4 years of driving 13,000 km a year So basically buying a prius every three years is more enviromentally damaging then keeping a standard family salon. (european terminology incase you are wondering what a salon is. Something like I am guessing a Ford Taurus) What you need to do is get people to keep cars longer. A study in germany said that the emissions from the manufacture of a car was roughly equal to 4 years of driving 13,000 km a year So basically buying a prius every three years is more enviromentally damaging then keeping a standard family salon. (european terminology incase you are wondering what a salon is. Something like I am guessing a Ford Taurus)

]]> By: Chris Martell http://greenlagirl.com/tuesday-questions-a-carless-culture/comment-page-1/#comment-8143 Chris Martell Thu, 06 Jul 2006 18:06:50 +0000 http://greenlagirl.com/2006/07/04/tuesday-questions-a-carless-culture/#comment-8143 Oh, and I forgot to mention... I feel sooooooooooo extra sexy, when there is a slight chance, that being in my hot car, just might (sorry no 1,001% proof science yet...), mean that I may be a fractual contributor to events such as Katrina, Wilma and Rita? Naw, I can't go there, because it could never be proven in a court of law, with all the finger pointing, and burden of proof implications. And besides, that was their problem... hurricanes are not in my jurisdiction of compassionate logic, or responsibility. I am an American, and it is a free country, to do as I please, regardless of the consequences to others. We also can't forget, Driving Under the Influence of Alcohol, would be sooooo boring, if it were Riding the Bus Under the Influence. Yes, drunk drivers, are sooooooooooooo sexy. We should ask the Highway Patrol, so they could tell us just how sexy our cars are? Oh, and I forgot to mention…

I feel sooooooooooo extra sexy, when there is a slight chance, that being in my hot car, just might (sorry no 1,001% proof science yet…), mean that I may be a fractual contributor to events such as Katrina, Wilma and Rita? Naw, I can’t go there, because it could never be proven in a court of law, with all the finger pointing, and burden of proof implications. And besides, that was their problem… hurricanes are not in my jurisdiction of compassionate logic, or responsibility. I am an American, and it is a free country, to do as I please, regardless of the consequences to others.

We also can’t forget, Driving Under the Influence of Alcohol, would be sooooo boring, if it were Riding the Bus Under the Influence.

Yes, drunk drivers, are sooooooooooooo sexy. We should ask the Highway Patrol, so they could tell us just how sexy our cars are?

]]> By: Chris Martell http://greenlagirl.com/tuesday-questions-a-carless-culture/comment-page-1/#comment-8142 Chris Martell Thu, 06 Jul 2006 17:38:21 +0000 http://greenlagirl.com/2006/07/04/tuesday-questions-a-carless-culture/#comment-8142 Hi All! Cattle Cars for the Poor... Yes, this is a great insight, we need to feel that gushy "bling" when we are on public transit... heaven forbid we should have to sit next to a drug addict, or an immigrant, or a blind person, or someone with some other disability. Or a poor person. Or a homeless person. Yikes. Cars are generally our faux material cocoons from having to actually see, feel, smell, hear, taste and realize our American Nirvana. Our aversion to poverty... and our interesting desire to appear hip, and well to do... just where does that come from? Our cars, are our Rhinestones. Maybe, our real question here is, how do we really define what is sexy? What, is really erotic, rather than what gives us, or others the appearance of being, of being E-R-O-T-I-C? Do we ever notice, that Hollywood, never glamorizes buses, or bus riders, or bus drivers.....................................................???!!! Oooooooh, I feel so hot, sweaty and sexy, in my tricked out car when I am stuck in freeway traffic with 10,000 others cars, and I still have hours to reach my destination... ahhh, but I have a cell phone, or some really loud music to remove me from this reality.... Sorry, but we have to face it, we can not flash our need to show our bling, on the bus... well, at least not in America, so I guess the car industry wins the best of the show. Or was it the best of talent show in high school, oh, oh I forget, I soooo just love being a fifty year old teenager... you know the new thirty... Where is my botox! Opps, sorry, gotta run.... I am in a hurry to find my bling... Hi All!

Cattle Cars for the Poor… Yes, this is a great insight, we need to feel that gushy “bling” when we are on public transit… heaven forbid we should have to sit next to a drug addict, or an immigrant, or a blind person, or someone with some other disability. Or a poor person. Or a homeless person. Yikes. Cars are generally our faux material cocoons from having to actually see, feel, smell, hear, taste and realize our American Nirvana. Our aversion to poverty… and our interesting desire to appear hip, and well to do… just where does that come from?

Our cars, are our Rhinestones. Maybe, our real question here is, how do we really define what is sexy? What, is really erotic, rather than what gives us, or others the appearance of being, of being E-R-O-T-I-C? Do we ever notice, that Hollywood, never glamorizes buses, or bus riders, or bus drivers……………………………………………..???!!!

Oooooooh, I feel so hot, sweaty and sexy, in my tricked out car when I am stuck in freeway traffic with 10,000 others cars, and I still have hours to reach my destination… ahhh, but I have a cell phone, or some really loud music to remove me from this reality….

Sorry, but we have to face it, we can not flash our need to show our bling, on the bus… well, at least not in America, so I guess the car industry wins the best of the show. Or was it the best of talent show in high school, oh, oh I forget, I soooo just love being a fifty year old teenager… you know the new thirty…

Where is my botox! Opps, sorry, gotta run…. I am in a hurry to find my bling…

]]> By: Roger, Gone Green http://greenlagirl.com/tuesday-questions-a-carless-culture/comment-page-1/#comment-8111 Roger, Gone Green Thu, 06 Jul 2006 03:05:21 +0000 http://greenlagirl.com/2006/07/04/tuesday-questions-a-carless-culture/#comment-8111 Buses need to move past "cattle cars" for the poor,and be set up and used more like hotel shuttles. Santa Barbara has gone WAY far in the right direction with its all-electric open-air downtown shuttles. Silent, attractive, run on very high frequency, so a schedule is unneeded. (I.e. step up, a bus will be by within 5 minutes kind of frequencies). Walking is a chicken-egg problem: Which comes first, the walkable, human scale community or the walkers? In Pasadena we have been working on it for about 15 years, and are getting close to a tipping point. One aspect is the addition of 9 mini-shuttle lines for our 5-mile wide city. Another is zoning codes that have been changed, and then changed again, to bring in development that favors non-auto mobility. As for bikes, bike lanes are not a good solution, as they often create unseen dangers for cyclists. Education, especially toward vehicular cycling, goes a long way. (I used to be a BIG fan of bike lanes, but have seen lane-sharing and vehicular cycling be very effective. In fact, today I went to do the grocery shopping for a family of five. I put a $100 kid trailer on and loaded it with groceries. Instead of the usual zooming cars I got quite a few thoughtful looks from car riders -- often in the rear views mirror as I sat in the lane behind them, and kept up through the heavy traffic for two or three lights. (grin).) Another is the addition of legal requirements for bike parking, and some 170 + city installed bike racks. So does that make it sexy? No. Did not-smoking become sexy? Fewer kids smoke now, even though some still will. A little education (school programs) a little prohibition (non-smoking cities) et viola -- changes happen. Unless you hit the actual beach cities, lots of west LA infrastructure was built at the height of the car culture. It will take a decade or two to see changes there, unless gas goes to $5 or $6 per gallon. Buses need to move past “cattle cars” for the poor,and be set up and used more like hotel shuttles. Santa Barbara has gone WAY far in the right direction with its all-electric open-air downtown shuttles. Silent, attractive, run on very high frequency, so a schedule is unneeded. (I.e. step up, a bus will be by within 5 minutes kind of frequencies).

Walking is a chicken-egg problem: Which comes first, the walkable, human scale community or the walkers? In Pasadena we have been working on it for about 15 years, and are getting close to a tipping point. One aspect is the addition of 9 mini-shuttle lines for our 5-mile wide city. Another is zoning codes that have been changed, and then changed again, to bring in development that favors non-auto mobility.

As for bikes, bike lanes are not a good solution, as they often create unseen dangers for cyclists. Education, especially toward vehicular cycling, goes a long way.

(I used to be a BIG fan of bike lanes, but have seen lane-sharing and vehicular cycling be very effective. In fact, today I went to do the grocery shopping for a family of five. I put a $100 kid trailer on and loaded it with groceries. Instead of the usual zooming cars I got quite a few thoughtful looks from car riders — often in the rear views mirror as I sat in the lane behind them, and kept up through the heavy traffic for two or three lights. (grin).)

Another is the addition of legal requirements for bike parking, and some 170 + city installed bike racks.

So does that make it sexy? No. Did not-smoking become sexy? Fewer kids smoke now, even though some still will. A little education (school programs) a little prohibition (non-smoking cities) et viola — changes happen.

Unless you hit the actual beach cities, lots of west LA infrastructure was built at the height of the car culture. It will take a decade or two to see changes there, unless gas goes to $5 or $6 per gallon.

]]> By: Chris Martell http://greenlagirl.com/tuesday-questions-a-carless-culture/comment-page-1/#comment-8087 Chris Martell Wed, 05 Jul 2006 18:49:29 +0000 http://greenlagirl.com/2006/07/04/tuesday-questions-a-carless-culture/#comment-8087 Hey all! Part of the problem can be understood, in how the induztry markets the coooooooool? car. I for one don't find this kind of pyschological manipulation (brain washing...) a very friendly indictment of our capitalistic model. It is brutal actually. The public has to grow up and realize they are being preyed upon by a mostly vicious machinery... that does not care if we choke to death on our own toxic fumes... and annilhilate ourselves in automotive vehicle deaths... Check out this guy who is the mastermind behind the advertising...and reptilian human ancestral brain pyschology... http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/persuaders/interviews/rapaille.html Yeah, a free world? I don't think so, unless people start evolving and using their brains... hello global warming, and peak oil, oh yes, such sexy topics for a self obsessed, culture, that mostly does not care much about the whole world, just their ego-mobiles... Sorry to get a bit pissed here, but this has been a critical issue for over thirty years. And it high time we woke up... Hey all!

Part of the problem can be understood, in how the induztry markets the coooooooool? car. I for one don’t find this kind of pyschological manipulation (brain washing…) a very friendly indictment of our capitalistic model. It is brutal actually. The public has to grow up and realize they are being preyed upon by a mostly vicious machinery… that does not care if we choke to death on our own toxic fumes… and annilhilate ourselves in automotive vehicle deaths…

Check out this guy who is the mastermind behind the advertising…and reptilian human ancestral brain pyschology…

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/persuaders/interviews/rapaille.html

Yeah, a free world? I don’t think so, unless people start evolving and using their brains… hello global warming, and peak oil, oh yes, such sexy topics for a self obsessed, culture, that mostly does not care much about the whole world, just their ego-mobiles…

Sorry to get a bit pissed here, but this has been a critical issue for over thirty years. And it high time we woke up…

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