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	<title>Comments on: Vote! No on Prop 7</title>
	<atom:link href="http://greenlagirl.com/vote-no-on-prop-7/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://greenlagirl.com/vote-no-on-prop-7/</link>
	<description>Urban environmental lifestyle blog in Los Angeles</description>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/vote-no-on-prop-7/comment-page-1/#comment-379730</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 19:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/?p=4636#comment-379730</guid>
		<description>&quot;..these enviro groups sit on other boards with corporate representatives, which in my view engenders undue friendliness and a disinclination to strongly challenge these interests.&quot;
so true:
http://www.yeson7.net/colbertnpope.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;..these enviro groups sit on other boards with corporate representatives, which in my view engenders undue friendliness and a disinclination to strongly challenge these interests.&#8221;<br />
so true:<br />
<a href="http://www.yeson7.net/colbertnpope.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.yeson7.net/colbertnpope.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Siel</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/vote-no-on-prop-7/comment-page-1/#comment-379522</link>
		<dc:creator>Siel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 05:45:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/?p=4636#comment-379522</guid>
		<description>Hey Bernardo -- You&#039;ve certainly picked an ambitious name -- nonprofitwatch -- for your personal project! 

My general difficulties with trusting an anonymous blogger aside, I thought you&#039;d find this review of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.grist.org/feature/2008/10/03/green.inc/index.html?source=rss&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Green, Inc.&lt;/a&gt; interesting. The book itself sounds like something you&#039;d really like, since it basically argues what you&#039;re arguing here -- that big enviro nonprofits have become horribly corrupt. 
 The book review, on the other hand, is more levelheaded, and points this out about the book author&#039;s argument:

&lt;i&gt;MacDonald wants the reader to accept her premise that the environmental movement has been irreparably corrupted merely because of corporate partnerships -- i.e., guilt by association. The author is unable to see any value in conservation groups embracing such alliances in a bid to steer environmental policies within the business community.&lt;/i&gt;

Your comment -- and SolarCalGirl -- does the same. And for me, proof of wrongdoing has to go beyond just guilt by association.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Bernardo &#8212; You&#8217;ve certainly picked an ambitious name &#8212; nonprofitwatch &#8212; for your personal project! </p>
<p>My general difficulties with trusting an anonymous blogger aside, I thought you&#8217;d find this review of <a href="http://www.grist.org/feature/2008/10/03/green.inc/index.html?source=rss" rel="nofollow">Green, Inc.</a> interesting. The book itself sounds like something you&#8217;d really like, since it basically argues what you&#8217;re arguing here &#8212; that big enviro nonprofits have become horribly corrupt.<br />
 The book review, on the other hand, is more levelheaded, and points this out about the book author&#8217;s argument:</p>
<p><i>MacDonald wants the reader to accept her premise that the environmental movement has been irreparably corrupted merely because of corporate partnerships &#8212; i.e., guilt by association. The author is unable to see any value in conservation groups embracing such alliances in a bid to steer environmental policies within the business community.</i></p>
<p>Your comment &#8212; and SolarCalGirl &#8212; does the same. And for me, proof of wrongdoing has to go beyond just guilt by association.</p>
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		<title>By: bernardo issel</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/vote-no-on-prop-7/comment-page-1/#comment-376960</link>
		<dc:creator>bernardo issel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 15:31:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/?p=4636#comment-376960</guid>
		<description>NRDC &amp; Mainstream Enviros Not to be Trusted:

Dear Green LA Girl,  

I&#039;ve liked your presence on the web -- I believe it was from your blogging about Starbucks that you first showed up on my radar; however I disagree with your outright deferral to the mainstream California enviros in regards to prop 7.  I am no expert on energy policy and thus cannot evaluate the benefits and faults of Prop 7; but I am quite distrustful of the mainstream enviros.

An anonymous blogger by the handle of SolarCaliGirl has been slamming the ethics and judgment of NRDC and the other elite enviros who&#039;ve been criticizing Prop 7.  http://www.confusedinsolarcalifornia.blogspot.com   This blog points out that various anti-Prop 7 groups such as CEERT and CLCV receive funding from and have representatives on their boards from electric utilities.  Moreover, many of these enviro groups sit on other boards with corporate representatives, which in my view engenders undue friendliness and a disinclination to strongly challenge these interests.  SolarCaliGirl’s blog points out that NRDC played an active role in designing and defending California&#039;s electricity restructuring and we saw how well that worked out.  Considering that NRDC utterly botched deregulation, setting California up to be plundered by the energy companies such as Enron which NRDC had gone to bat for and dubbed “progressive”, a more self-reflective environmental community would not be assigning trust to NRDC.  

The expert Mr. Beach of CrossBorder Energy to whose analysis you link seems to be well versed on energy policy.  He&#039;s represented solar and wind interests, however has also represented natural gas and other companies who generate power through various means and might not like the strong renewable energy goals of Prop 7.  Note his testimony ( http://tinyurl.com/5apn8m ) on behalf of the &quot;California Producers&quot; which includes the “Western States Petroleum Association and the California Independent Petroleum Associations”.  In his bio at the end of the document, you find that he&#039;s been paid by Calpine, Mirant, Duke Energy, the Alberta Petroleum Marketing Commission, as well as Pacific Gas &amp; Electric, a major funder of the No On 7 campaign.  I&#039;d be hesitant to rely on the judgment of one whose working on behalf of such a range of interests.   Sadly I thinks this type of conflict from tight relationships to utility interests also applies to many of the enviros opposing 7.  For example, the group VoteSolar which referred to his testimony has been all to comfortable taking funding from Pacific Gas &amp; Electric, Chevron, and other energy companies --  http://www.votesolar.org/equinox2/thank_you/

For some other supportive views on Prop 7, take a look at

  Comment in favor of Prop 7 by Donald Aitken, Ph.D., 
http://redgreenandblue.org/2008/10/22/california-will-vote-on-misleading-renewable-energy-initiatives/
  who from his bio seems to have done quite a bit of work on behalf of solar 
  http://www.donaldaitkenassociates.com/bio_da.html

 Renewable energy goals achievable under Proposition 7 by S. David Freeman
 http://www.dailybulletin.com/ci_10830653?source=most_emailed

Regardless of how things work out on Prop 7, the future of the planet may require carrying out a close examination of the mainstream “enviros” and pondering whether they should be entrusted to continue in their role as arbiters of environmental policy. Unfortunately, the mainstream media and most of the blog community ignore these issues. 

Regards, bernardo (at) NonprofitWatch dot org</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NRDC &amp; Mainstream Enviros Not to be Trusted:</p>
<p>Dear Green LA Girl,  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve liked your presence on the web &#8212; I believe it was from your blogging about Starbucks that you first showed up on my radar; however I disagree with your outright deferral to the mainstream California enviros in regards to prop 7.  I am no expert on energy policy and thus cannot evaluate the benefits and faults of Prop 7; but I am quite distrustful of the mainstream enviros.</p>
<p>An anonymous blogger by the handle of SolarCaliGirl has been slamming the ethics and judgment of NRDC and the other elite enviros who&#8217;ve been criticizing Prop 7.  <a href="http://www.confusedinsolarcalifornia.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.confusedinsolarcalifornia.blogspot.com</a>   This blog points out that various anti-Prop 7 groups such as CEERT and CLCV receive funding from and have representatives on their boards from electric utilities.  Moreover, many of these enviro groups sit on other boards with corporate representatives, which in my view engenders undue friendliness and a disinclination to strongly challenge these interests.  SolarCaliGirl’s blog points out that NRDC played an active role in designing and defending California&#8217;s electricity restructuring and we saw how well that worked out.  Considering that NRDC utterly botched deregulation, setting California up to be plundered by the energy companies such as Enron which NRDC had gone to bat for and dubbed “progressive”, a more self-reflective environmental community would not be assigning trust to NRDC.  </p>
<p>The expert Mr. Beach of CrossBorder Energy to whose analysis you link seems to be well versed on energy policy.  He&#8217;s represented solar and wind interests, however has also represented natural gas and other companies who generate power through various means and might not like the strong renewable energy goals of Prop 7.  Note his testimony ( <a href="http://tinyurl.com/5apn8m" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/5apn8m</a> ) on behalf of the &#8220;California Producers&#8221; which includes the “Western States Petroleum Association and the California Independent Petroleum Associations”.  In his bio at the end of the document, you find that he&#8217;s been paid by Calpine, Mirant, Duke Energy, the Alberta Petroleum Marketing Commission, as well as Pacific Gas &amp; Electric, a major funder of the No On 7 campaign.  I&#8217;d be hesitant to rely on the judgment of one whose working on behalf of such a range of interests.   Sadly I thinks this type of conflict from tight relationships to utility interests also applies to many of the enviros opposing 7.  For example, the group VoteSolar which referred to his testimony has been all to comfortable taking funding from Pacific Gas &amp; Electric, Chevron, and other energy companies &#8212;  <a href="http://www.votesolar.org/equinox2/thank_you/" rel="nofollow">http://www.votesolar.org/equinox2/thank_you/</a></p>
<p>For some other supportive views on Prop 7, take a look at</p>
<p>  Comment in favor of Prop 7 by Donald Aitken, Ph.D.,<br />
<a href="http://redgreenandblue.org/2008/10/22/california-will-vote-on-misleading-renewable-energy-initiatives/" rel="nofollow">http://redgreenandblue.org/2008/10/22/california-will-vote-on-misleading-renewable-energy-initiatives/</a><br />
  who from his bio seems to have done quite a bit of work on behalf of solar<br />
  <a href="http://www.donaldaitkenassociates.com/bio_da.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.donaldaitkenassociates.com/bio_da.html</a></p>
<p> Renewable energy goals achievable under Proposition 7 by S. David Freeman<br />
 <a href="http://www.dailybulletin.com/ci_10830653?source=most_emailed" rel="nofollow">http://www.dailybulletin.com/ci_10830653?source=most_emailed</a></p>
<p>Regardless of how things work out on Prop 7, the future of the planet may require carrying out a close examination of the mainstream “enviros” and pondering whether they should be entrusted to continue in their role as arbiters of environmental policy. Unfortunately, the mainstream media and most of the blog community ignore these issues. </p>
<p>Regards, bernardo (at) NonprofitWatch dot org</p>
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		<title>By: Siel</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/vote-no-on-prop-7/comment-page-1/#comment-376746</link>
		<dc:creator>Siel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 05:40:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/?p=4636#comment-376746</guid>
		<description>So_much_to_say -- Um, I actually have a link to that story in the post itself.... In any case, if you have actual proof of your eco-conspiracy theory, I think we&#039;d all love to find out more about it --

Chris -- I&#039;ll write about prop 10 soon :) Glad you found the links helpful!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So_much_to_say &#8212; Um, I actually have a link to that story in the post itself&#8230;. In any case, if you have actual proof of your eco-conspiracy theory, I think we&#8217;d all love to find out more about it &#8211;</p>
<p>Chris &#8212; I&#8217;ll write about prop 10 soon :) Glad you found the links helpful!</p>
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		<title>By: So_much_to_say</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/vote-no-on-prop-7/comment-page-1/#comment-376645</link>
		<dc:creator>So_much_to_say</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 00:56:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/?p=4636#comment-376645</guid>
		<description>The unfortunate untold story is that these environmental groups have longstanding ties to the utility companies who are funding the no side. Google Confused in Solar California. Also, for more information about prop 7 from an unbiased source, please read: http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/10/24/121119/72</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The unfortunate untold story is that these environmental groups have longstanding ties to the utility companies who are funding the no side. Google Confused in Solar California. Also, for more information about prop 7 from an unbiased source, please read: <a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/10/24/121119/72" rel="nofollow">http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/10/24/121119/72</a></p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/vote-no-on-prop-7/comment-page-1/#comment-376627</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 00:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/?p=4636#comment-376627</guid>
		<description>This is very surprising.. Thank you for linking to these other articles.  I definately have a lot more research to do before I decide on this one.. I was in the camp thinking &quot;well this is a start, and some green energy is a lot better than no green energy.&quot;

What do you think about proposition 10 (the one to subsidize alternative fuel cars, fund research, etc)?

This is going to be a very interesting election, no matter which angle you look at it from...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is very surprising.. Thank you for linking to these other articles.  I definately have a lot more research to do before I decide on this one.. I was in the camp thinking &#8220;well this is a start, and some green energy is a lot better than no green energy.&#8221;</p>
<p>What do you think about proposition 10 (the one to subsidize alternative fuel cars, fund research, etc)?</p>
<p>This is going to be a very interesting election, no matter which angle you look at it from&#8230;</p>
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