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	<title>Comments on: Walmart and fair trade coffee</title>
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	<link>http://greenlagirl.com/walmart-and-fair-trade-coffee/</link>
	<description>Urban environmental lifestyle blog in Los Angeles</description>
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		<title>By: Siel</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/walmart-and-fair-trade-coffee/comment-page-1/#comment-6442</link>
		<dc:creator>Siel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jun 2006 05:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/2006/06/12/walmart-and-fair-trade-coffee/#comment-6442</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with joebella, mostly. For the most part, I&#039;m liable to think that, once people discover fair trade, they get further into it.

Meaning -- a Walmart customer might pick up fair trade coffee by accident or out of curiousity. They read more about it, google it, and realize that buying fair trade coffee at Walmart&#039;s a bit of an oxymoron, and start looking for better options for fair trade coffee.

I guess I feel different people come to fair trade in different ways. Giving people more ways to join the movement seems to me a step in the right direction, though certainly not an end-all.

CMH -- Did you read the post? Cuz this is &lt;a href=&quot;http://greenlagirl.com/2006/05/01/starbucks-challenge-40/#comment-4182&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the second time&lt;/a&gt; -- at least since you changed screennames -- that you&#039;ve commented misconstruing what I have said. The post actually starts out with me talking about how I&#039;d love for more big companies to do fair trade, not how much I hate big companies. 

According to the &quot;Starbucks Commitment to Social Responsibility&quot; brochure for 2004 -- which I currently have on my desk -- Starbucks committed to a goal of 10 mil lbs for 2005, not 11 mil. Please check your facts yrself. The fact is that even after the Costco deal went through, Starbucks ended up exceeding that 10 mil lbs goal by only 1.5 mil more lbs -- which makes me wonder if the mermaid would&#039;ve met the goal at all had it not been for Costco&#039;s request to make its Kirkland coffee fair trade. 

As you know, &lt;a href=&quot;http://greenlagirl.com/2006/06/11/coffee-chains/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the size of Starbucks&lt;/a&gt; really dwarfs that of all other specialty coffee companies. Which is why a lb by lb comparison just doesn&#039;t give us a clear pic of the depth (or lack thereof) of commitment Starbucks has made to fair trade. The fact is, even after the Costco deal, Starbucks was only at 3.7% fair trade. 

Lezbro -- I admire your enthusiasm and thank you for taking the time out to read and post frequently. However, I&#039;m not sure that making accusations about orgs that you reportedly &quot;Dunno. Don&#039;t care&quot; about is a valuable addition to this discussion. It&#039;s one thing to express your opinion that consumers should look beyond the label, but it&#039;s quite another to imply that TFUSA and other orgs are under the thumb of the Bush administration -- when, as you said, you dunno anything about it. I hope to hear more from you, but also hope that you&#039;ll try to stay away from unwarranted accusations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with joebella, mostly. For the most part, I&#8217;m liable to think that, once people discover fair trade, they get further into it.</p>
<p>Meaning &#8212; a Walmart customer might pick up fair trade coffee by accident or out of curiousity. They read more about it, google it, and realize that buying fair trade coffee at Walmart&#8217;s a bit of an oxymoron, and start looking for better options for fair trade coffee.</p>
<p>I guess I feel different people come to fair trade in different ways. Giving people more ways to join the movement seems to me a step in the right direction, though certainly not an end-all.</p>
<p>CMH &#8212; Did you read the post? Cuz this is <a href="http://greenlagirl.com/2006/05/01/starbucks-challenge-40/#comment-4182" rel="nofollow">the second time</a> &#8212; at least since you changed screennames &#8212; that you&#8217;ve commented misconstruing what I have said. The post actually starts out with me talking about how I&#8217;d love for more big companies to do fair trade, not how much I hate big companies. </p>
<p>According to the &#8220;Starbucks Commitment to Social Responsibility&#8221; brochure for 2004 &#8212; which I currently have on my desk &#8212; Starbucks committed to a goal of 10 mil lbs for 2005, not 11 mil. Please check your facts yrself. The fact is that even after the Costco deal went through, Starbucks ended up exceeding that 10 mil lbs goal by only 1.5 mil more lbs &#8212; which makes me wonder if the mermaid would&#8217;ve met the goal at all had it not been for Costco&#8217;s request to make its Kirkland coffee fair trade. </p>
<p>As you know, <a href="http://greenlagirl.com/2006/06/11/coffee-chains/" rel="nofollow">the size of Starbucks</a> really dwarfs that of all other specialty coffee companies. Which is why a lb by lb comparison just doesn&#8217;t give us a clear pic of the depth (or lack thereof) of commitment Starbucks has made to fair trade. The fact is, even after the Costco deal, Starbucks was only at 3.7% fair trade. </p>
<p>Lezbro &#8212; I admire your enthusiasm and thank you for taking the time out to read and post frequently. However, I&#8217;m not sure that making accusations about orgs that you reportedly &#8220;Dunno. Don&#8217;t care&#8221; about is a valuable addition to this discussion. It&#8217;s one thing to express your opinion that consumers should look beyond the label, but it&#8217;s quite another to imply that TFUSA and other orgs are under the thumb of the Bush administration &#8212; when, as you said, you dunno anything about it. I hope to hear more from you, but also hope that you&#8217;ll try to stay away from unwarranted accusations.</p>
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		<title>By: ummm....</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/walmart-and-fair-trade-coffee/comment-page-1/#comment-6336</link>
		<dc:creator>ummm....</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2006 19:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/2006/06/12/walmart-and-fair-trade-coffee/#comment-6336</guid>
		<description>well, i hope you don&#039;t ride a motorcycle...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well, i hope you don&#8217;t ride a motorcycle&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Lezbro</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/walmart-and-fair-trade-coffee/comment-page-1/#comment-6330</link>
		<dc:creator>Lezbro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:46:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/2006/06/12/walmart-and-fair-trade-coffee/#comment-6330</guid>
		<description>The Internet makes source communication and research viable, even convenient. I don&#039;t need to fly a donkey from the sticks to communicate with the farmer or the laborers themselves. Energy Star means nothing to me. The stickers on a helmet mean nothing to me. The stickers on my coffee mean nothing to me. Nothing. Zero. You call that &quot;cursory dismissal.&quot; I&#039;ll call it doing my own legwork. The corporations hide most, if not all, of their abuses in these shell companies and paper tiger certifying agencies and groups.

&gt;&gt; again I ask, how do we empower the average american consumer to make more sustainable choices?

The average consumer is chum to the predatory billions spent to spin them in a constant cycle of disinformation, press releases, false studies, and pseudo-scientific &quot;findings&quot; about products or services marketed by trade groups.

The average consumer either becomes the Unaverage Consumer by detaching himself or herself from the corporate disinformation network or they can keep eating corn syrup, mercury, and BSE-contaminated pseudo-meat and continue to marvel at the multitude of &quot;mysterious&quot; ailments which continue to plague their family and friends.

There is NO easy answer.

Not when it comes to food, labor, or politics.

Consumers either get informed at the source or they will be abused and exploited. Stickers won&#039;t change anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Internet makes source communication and research viable, even convenient. I don&#8217;t need to fly a donkey from the sticks to communicate with the farmer or the laborers themselves. Energy Star means nothing to me. The stickers on a helmet mean nothing to me. The stickers on my coffee mean nothing to me. Nothing. Zero. You call that &#8220;cursory dismissal.&#8221; I&#8217;ll call it doing my own legwork. The corporations hide most, if not all, of their abuses in these shell companies and paper tiger certifying agencies and groups.</p>
<p>&gt;&gt; again I ask, how do we empower the average american consumer to make more sustainable choices?</p>
<p>The average consumer is chum to the predatory billions spent to spin them in a constant cycle of disinformation, press releases, false studies, and pseudo-scientific &#8220;findings&#8221; about products or services marketed by trade groups.</p>
<p>The average consumer either becomes the Unaverage Consumer by detaching himself or herself from the corporate disinformation network or they can keep eating corn syrup, mercury, and BSE-contaminated pseudo-meat and continue to marvel at the multitude of &#8220;mysterious&#8221; ailments which continue to plague their family and friends.</p>
<p>There is NO easy answer.</p>
<p>Not when it comes to food, labor, or politics.</p>
<p>Consumers either get informed at the source or they will be abused and exploited. Stickers won&#8217;t change anything.</p>
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		<title>By: ummm....</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/walmart-and-fair-trade-coffee/comment-page-1/#comment-6329</link>
		<dc:creator>ummm....</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:22:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/2006/06/12/walmart-and-fair-trade-coffee/#comment-6329</guid>
		<description>lezbro: well, good for you.  i suppose you bring sacos back up from Jinotega on a donkey and roast it yourself in your kitchen. i&#039;m sure you expect every coffee consumer in this country to fly down to origin and do the inspections themselves, right?  face it, the average US consumer doesn&#039;t have time to do days of research and interviews when deciding to buy a bag of coffee.  but they do have enough time to read a label.  

and i never thought that ignorant cursory dismissal was a good way to make your decisions:

&quot;Specifically?

Dunno.

Donâ€™t care.&quot;

wow.  brilliant.

&quot;Those labels mean absolutely zero. Nothing.&quot;

please explain how and why.

do you dismiss all certification labels? if you rode a motorcycle would you dismiss the Snell/Ainsi sticker and wear a non-certified helmet?  would you rather not buy Energy Star electronics/home appliances and just believe that a company says their computer moniters save energy?  

again I ask, how do we empower the average american consumer to make more sustainable choices?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lezbro: well, good for you.  i suppose you bring sacos back up from Jinotega on a donkey and roast it yourself in your kitchen. i&#8217;m sure you expect every coffee consumer in this country to fly down to origin and do the inspections themselves, right?  face it, the average US consumer doesn&#8217;t have time to do days of research and interviews when deciding to buy a bag of coffee.  but they do have enough time to read a label.  </p>
<p>and i never thought that ignorant cursory dismissal was a good way to make your decisions:</p>
<p>&#8220;Specifically?</p>
<p>Dunno.</p>
<p>Donâ€™t care.&#8221;</p>
<p>wow.  brilliant.</p>
<p>&#8220;Those labels mean absolutely zero. Nothing.&#8221;</p>
<p>please explain how and why.</p>
<p>do you dismiss all certification labels? if you rode a motorcycle would you dismiss the Snell/Ainsi sticker and wear a non-certified helmet?  would you rather not buy Energy Star electronics/home appliances and just believe that a company says their computer moniters save energy?  </p>
<p>again I ask, how do we empower the average american consumer to make more sustainable choices?</p>
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		<title>By: Lezbro</title>
		<link>http://greenlagirl.com/walmart-and-fair-trade-coffee/comment-page-1/#comment-6303</link>
		<dc:creator>Lezbro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2006 05:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenlagirl.com/2006/06/12/walmart-and-fair-trade-coffee/#comment-6303</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt; and lezbro: how has the Bush administration impacted Fair Trade Certification as set by TransFair USA and Fairtrade Labelling Organizations Intl.?

Specifically?

Dunno.

Don&#039;t care.

The transnationals shed shell companies, thinktanks, and faux certification organizations as needed. If you like, feel free to spend the remainder of your days navigating the labyrinth of greenwashing, astroturf, and disingenuous press releases.

Collect as many acronyms as you desire.

The Bush administration is demonstrably corrupt and wholly in the service of transnational corporations. I don&#039;t need to revisit the specifics each day to verify this. Those labels mean absolutely zero. Nothing.

Organizations can be loaded with board members who do the work of the highest bidder. Who do you think the &quot;Bush administration&quot; is? Merely the public face of the global economy.

These real world standards are moving targets. It&#039;s an ongoing battle between independent journalists, citizens, bloggers (the very, very few who manage to stay afloat in our censorial society) and the corporations who can deluge the public with a torrent of disinformation.

I don&#039;t put ANY stake in these non-profits or certifying agencies. I want to speak people to people to see whether it&#039;s working. They are ways to dialogue with the farmers directly. Why go through some certifying organization? Sure, that&#039;s a lot of work for a cup of coffee, but that&#039;s where we are in 2006.

I don&#039;t base my decisions on some sticker.

I go to the source.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt; and lezbro: how has the Bush administration impacted Fair Trade Certification as set by TransFair USA and Fairtrade Labelling Organizations Intl.?</p>
<p>Specifically?</p>
<p>Dunno.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t care.</p>
<p>The transnationals shed shell companies, thinktanks, and faux certification organizations as needed. If you like, feel free to spend the remainder of your days navigating the labyrinth of greenwashing, astroturf, and disingenuous press releases.</p>
<p>Collect as many acronyms as you desire.</p>
<p>The Bush administration is demonstrably corrupt and wholly in the service of transnational corporations. I don&#8217;t need to revisit the specifics each day to verify this. Those labels mean absolutely zero. Nothing.</p>
<p>Organizations can be loaded with board members who do the work of the highest bidder. Who do you think the &#8220;Bush administration&#8221; is? Merely the public face of the global economy.</p>
<p>These real world standards are moving targets. It&#8217;s an ongoing battle between independent journalists, citizens, bloggers (the very, very few who manage to stay afloat in our censorial society) and the corporations who can deluge the public with a torrent of disinformation.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t put ANY stake in these non-profits or certifying agencies. I want to speak people to people to see whether it&#8217;s working. They are ways to dialogue with the farmers directly. Why go through some certifying organization? Sure, that&#8217;s a lot of work for a cup of coffee, but that&#8217;s where we are in 2006.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t base my decisions on some sticker.</p>
<p>I go to the source.</p>
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